Submitted by Abalieno on August 28, 2008 - 11:12.
Despite all the praises about the gameplay and design choices, there are still those glaring flaws that I and others pointed out... years ago.
In this case I quote someone else, as a good summary:
There are 7 public quests (that I know of) in the first Chaos zone alone. That means you’d need 42 to 70 people in that zone working on public quests to do them all at once. I even ran into one completely empty PQ over the weekend even though almost every Chaos player was in that zone.
Will there ever be that many people working on PQs in the same low level zone after the first week or two after launch? Probably not.
I suspected that they would dynamically scale public quests based on the number of players currently participating. When I found a PQ that nobody else was doing, I worked my butt off and completed the first stage alone. Then Champion mobs spawned in stage 2, and I was screwed. So, it looks like they aren’t doing any sort of scaling.
Unfortunately, even though public quests are extremely fun, I fear they won’t even be doable throughout the majority of the game for those of us who will get behind the curve. As soon as I fall behind the pack, which inevitably I will, I’ll be unable to do any PQs until the end game.
I was able to have a similar experience in the second chaos zone, even with 2500 players logged in. Not exactly during an off-peak. And not even weeks or months or years after a server launch.
There's a way to sum it up in an even more significant way:
- Too many parts of Warhammer's core design are strictly dependent on keeping a fine balance on the number of players participating, and so vulnerable. It's not about PQs only. It's about PQs, faction balance in open RvR, issues of overcrowding and depopulation in all the parts of the game. The *fun* strictly depends on that fine balance, to keep all the options viable at all times, and to keep the single option fun without suffering overcrowding or depopulation.
Right now Mythic does absolutely nothing to preserve that fine balance, and down the road I only expect XP, renown bonuses/disadvantages for a faction or the other that won't really move anything in any significant way.
There are certain workarounds that may help, some of which I also suggested (de-levelling, multiple scenarios queues, adaptable objectives for PQs). But to me it's very clear that this game required to be built different at its core.
- Dynamic server structure with a mix of persistence and instancing. Server(zone) created dynamically depending on the number of players. Something like a creative use of Guild Wars system.
Certain design schemes need their specific systems to work. Or they just remain pretty ideas that do not work in practice.
The scheme Mythic's adopting here will have its flaws hidden or sweetened for a while, but it will hurt them hard in the long term.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 26, 2008 - 18:51.
Just a random quote:
At his side, Milacar sighed. 'The Committee for Public Morals is not dependent on Kaad for its venom, nor was it ever. There's a general hate in the hearts of men. You went to war, Gil, you should know that better than anyone. It's like the heat of the sun. Men like Kaad are just the focal figures, like lenses to gather the sun's rays on kindling. You can smash a lens, but that won't put out the sun.'
'No. Makes it a lot harder to start the next fire, though.'
'For a little while, yes. Until the next lens, or the next hard summer, and then the fires begin again.'
'Getting a bit fucking fatalistic in your old age, aren't you?' Ringil nodded out over the mansion lights. 'Or does that just come with the move upriver?'
'No, it comes with living long enough to appreciate the value of the time you've got left. Long enough to recognize the fallacy of a crusade when you're called to one. Hoiran's teeth, Gil, you're the last person I should need to be telling this to. Have you forgotten what they did with your victory?'
I'm enjoying a lot the book. Not for any particular new idea or approach, but it's just fun to read and makes you want keep turning the pages and go on.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 23, 2008 - 12:55.

Now Blizzard risks a Crisis on Infinite Earths.
From an interview:
It's actually not instances. What we do is we have different world states, and depending on what quests you've completed, it changes what world state you're seeing.
what we call the phasing technology. There's quests that you do when you arrive at a town that's overrun by Scourge, it's like a "Choplifter" quest, you have to fly in and rescue villagers. As you bring them back to your quest hub, those villagers are there permanently for you, whereas if somebody who hasn't done the quest shows up, they don't see them.
There goes the last pretense of creating a world.
That kind of feature is extremely easy to implement. If it didn't exist till now it was simply due to scruples. Wasn't there any other better way?

Submitted by Abalieno on August 20, 2008 - 19:44.
EDIT: Will revise later.
The NDA came down and I can join others commenting the game. I didn't have time to make a decent writeup, nor the time to see the game past the first few levels, so I'll write down some comments about my experience and view on the game, even if prematurely.
On the basic level this really feels as if Mythic tried to make their own WoW. As a game on its own, it is serviceable. Polished enough and solid. I already anticipated that predicting how popular the game will be, in particular in the longer term, is very hard compared to other MMOs launched recently. Warhammer has a strength over its competition, but that strength is undermined and uncertain. And it may as well end as a weakness that backfires on them. In this case a lot depends on how well Mythic acknowledges problems and answers them. Post-release support.
With Mythic you can never know. Sometimes they react fast, address problems and provide some of the best support and continued development in the industry. On the other hand they often only work around problems and make them worse, or totally miss the point and finish to ruin the game (ToA and other long term disastrous choices DAoC was littered with).
That's also the disclaimer I suggest you to consider: do not believe reviews at this stage. The way PvP/RvR develops isn't predictable at the moment. It can either be a huge success or a big fail. It depends on the flow and players' activity and these elements are impossible to judge when a new server just opened and everyone is crammed in the same spaces. The PvP and other core elements of this game only work if there's a good players' activity. From what I've seen Mythic didn't think of ANY system that helps balancing it, and this mean that the number of alternatives for PvP offered may become a HUGE flaw if the players are spread thin and large swathes of content go depopulated and unused. Just hoping that "ideal conditions" are maintained out of faith just doesn't cut it.
Your fun in this game crucially depends on the affirmation of those "ideal conditions". It's a risky balance, and it's madness for Mythic to simply hope it will happen and will be maintained on its own.
The presentation of the game isn't anything too impressive. Character creation is even more simple and limited in choice than DAoC itself. You have limited graphic combination, no height slider (that existed in DAoC) nor other custom settings. You get to pick a few combination of faces, skin tones and usual presets. On the other hand all the characters have a distinctive look and a decent style. Nitpicking: there's a total lack of polish on the details. There are holes in the models, for example in the beards and hair, and plenty of flickering, z-fighting textures. It's all about small detail you have to have an eye for. But it's obvious that there's some lack of polish overall. Form the first moment you enter in actual the game you'll get a strong WoW feel. The impressions weren't wrong: this game was made with WoW running side by side and trying to copy it down to the smaller details. Not inspired, this is directly "ported". That said, the game has style.
The artists surely went for the WoW look even before glancing at Warhammer source material, but still have poured some personality in the game and not just a soulless copy. This is valid for both the graphic and the UI. There's charm and a lot of intelligent improvements all over the place. On the other side, WoW makes a much, much, much better work at leading you around and stagger systems so that you can learn easily and progressively. Warhammer instead presents a lot more "noise" right away and feels more confusing. The fact that it works on the same systems means that veteran MMORPG players will have no trouble starting to navigate it, but for new players this game isn't as easily accessible. The dwarf starting zone, in particular, is indoors, which is already an odd choice, a bit looking all the same and with no landmarks, so easy to get lost in it despite it reveals to be rather small.
The world and overall zone design mimics WoW without matching the sweeping vistas. The clip range is much shorter, the spaces overall more cramped and the zones without smooth transitions and contiguous feel. The "worldy" feel is lacking but it also kind of feels more "focused". Despite it's not on par with the world design in WoW and its impressive scale, Warhammer doesn't delude on the first impact. It has charm on its own and you don't feel like you are really missing anything.
For quests and other things the NPCs have overhead round icons, but the mouse pointer does not react to them and so the interaction isn't perfectly intuitive. If you know where to click it's because you played MMOs already. Here I had already my first gripe. Playing Relic's Dawn of War and Company of Heroes I'm used to see overhead icons as a way to quickly select a squad. You know, when it is tricky to select the unit properly. The icon is there to ease the selection. That's also a perfectly fine idea for a MMO: since often you get these NPCs cluttered and hidden behind a number of players' models, it is a great idea to place a nice, visible icon floating above their heads that is easy to see and click on. Great. But why can't I *use* it? That would be a great feature, clicking on the overhead icon directly instead of having to target the NPC model. Sadly, and not intuitively, as the first thing I tried to do when I logged in for the first time was trying to click on one of those overhead icons and discovered they weren't usable, the game doesn't work this way.
Despite these initial quirks and confusion, I was presented with the usual MMORPG fare. Get quest, go to location, do task. The quests themselves are WoW, first generation. Nothing particularly original and inspired, and it actually misses the nice touches and gameplay that makes these basic activities still fun and interesting in WoW, despite their simplicity. The system itself instead has some nice improvements. Three are most relevant:
1- In your on-screen quest tracker if you mouse over the quest title you get a short tooltip that explains exactly what to do, so you have an accessible and quick summary of the practical objective if you want to skip the reading of the whole quest, or if you're trying to remember what was that quest about. It's also dynamically updated to reflect what you are supposed to do next.
2- You have a red area marking the zone with the name of the quest, so working like a waypoint of sort.
3- All quest-related items sit in their own bag/UI panel, so don't get mixed with normal loot and equipment.
If you are here to have a similar PvE experience to WoW, then I suggest you to simply play that game. I'm dead bored of the usual quests and Warhammer doesn't seem to offer anything new on that field. The game instead stands out for the alternatives it provides, so here I'm saying that PvE is not very good or brightly designed, but that this isn't even too important. It is there if you want it, but you aren't supposed to care much.
On screen you basically have three experience bars that also explain a bit how the game is organized.
1- The proper experience bar that makes you gain levels (here ranks) by killing monsters and completing quests.
2- The "renown" bar that measure PvP personal progress. Like Realm Ranks in DAoC.
3- A contribution progress bar is local to the zone/location and that measures your progressive activity in the area.
Plenty of reasons to ignore the dull PvE, or at least to break those sessions and experiment with something more original and involving. The basic idea of the game design here is again to provide a number of alternatives so that the game feels more varied and not too repetitive. From what I've seen, it works. Win.
The Public Quests are probably one of the most interesting new concept of the game (but shame on Mythic for having put a trademark on the term). The implementation could have been improved but they seem to work well anyway. They are basically normal quests broken in stages and every player in the area can cooperate or at least work toward getting the task done and pass to the following stage. When it's over there's a timeout and the quest resets and restarts. Not "worldy" feel and rather faked, but it's there for the quick fun. For the two of them I've seen the completion is rather quick. I don't know if PQ in the later game becomes much more complex and elaborated, but those two could be resolved in a couple of minutes (if enough players are present), so it's really something immediate and then kind of redundant.
The redundancy feeds two concurrent systems that defines the reason why you're there and caring. One is through grinding the PQ. So not only completing one, but "grinding" it over and over again. Doing that slowly builds up the contribution bar and you get progressive rewards in three stages that you claim from an NPC. The other system is instead a bit too competitive and not really collaborative as it resembles more to a race to rush. If you manage to "do more" than other players in the area then, when the PQ is complete, you'll be able to roll for loot and, if at the very first positions, get something nice. So you can either grind, or try to rush. Or, well, both.
My impression on these is that they would work better if there was an adaptable system in place, like reducing or increasing quest requirements depending on the number of players involved so that the "flow" could be maintained. I think they would also work better if longer, broader and rewarding more players. Again, I don't know if the design opens up as you progress through levels, but the very first PQ, with a good number of players around, practically lasted only a couple of minutes before it was completed and reset. Feeling too fast and rushed and without even giving you enough time to figure out what to do in a stage before the stage was already completed. On the other hard the PQ are brilliant ideas because of a simple concept: shared quests spaces. You just go to one of them and can join right away, playing along a number of other players and having some fun. It's socialization and collaborative gameplay for dummies. And it's fantastic.
That's what's so special about this game. Got bored with PvE quests? Then go to a Public Quest area and dick around for a while. Got bored doing the public quest? Then queue for a scenario (from the UI, without the retarded idea to have to travel/walk to a battlemaster NPC) and join some mindless PvP. Bored with the mindless PvP? Then join an RvR area and fight for control. At the end this is fun because it's varied. It doesn't even need to be particularly meaningful or deep. You dick around and pack some progress tracked in multiple ways. It's fun and it's very accessible.
And the accessibility was the premise that made WoW successful.
The very first playable scenario is simple and fun. Basically a bridge with some control points and factions spawning at opposite directions. Every player below a certain level gets buffed up. The gameplay feel was also good. The fighting wasn't too fast or twitchy and there was plenty of time to react. Tuned quite well.
There's some controversy about the gameplay. I've read complaints that the game feels sluggish. That's one of the three reasons why the NDA was still up. I arrived in beta AFTER that problem was patched, I didn't read about the problem at that time, and yet I still perceived it.
It's not as simple as it appears. A lot depends on a number of elements, like the design of spell effects. There's a certain degree of slugginesh in the sense that there's some disconnection between you triggering skills and seeing their outcome (health bars updating, graphic effects being shown). The Graphic effect seems to "lag", more because of how they are designed than a system problem. You trigger the spell, get the flating number of the damage, see the health bar go down, then, after a while, you notice the full spell graphic effect. It's a bit silly, as if they used a long spell animation effect on a spell that does the damage instantly.
On its own it gives a bad feel, but it isn't game breaking. What makes it WORSE is about a problem in the controls. There's no spell/skill queue and the game SUFFERS BADLY because of this. You are forced to look at your hotbar, lock your eyes there to see if the spell is being triggered or not, while you are savagely spamming the key hoping to beat the cooldown/refresh timer. This is utterly annoying (even MORE if you play an healer, really) and you don't even have a sound clip like those in WoW that gives you a better idea if the action was accepted or rejected. If you pile the sluggishness problem with this spamming of keys and difficulty to trigger skills, you can imagine that the gameplay isn't as smooth as it should and it makes you feel like fighting too much against the controls. Implementing a spell/skill queue would greatly reduce this problem and I can't fathom why Mythic didn't solve this a long time ago. This is easily the first priority issue.
Controls about moving around and stuff are very good. Much better than DAoC. They put a lot of work to make sure the running/jumping animations feel as smooth as in WoW and they kinda succeeded. There's no fast-forward, jerky speed feeling here, animations are well paced and feel very good. It's refreshing to have at least another MMO that gets it. Just think to SWG, Warhammer sits at the opposite end. In particular I like the way they handled strafing and the back speed. Moving forward is much faster than going back, and this actually gives more depth to the controls even if limits the mobility. Twitchy-loving gameplay types may hate this, but I loved it. The strafing is also a nice touch as the character automatically turns to face the original direction when it stops. Just very good controls and well polished. And a good feel like moving is another key feature behind WoW's success that Warhammer was able to reproduce well.
The few quirks I didn't like are about the collision (with objects, not with players) and the slopes. There's some jerky z-axis movement when you move through a passable obstacle. Instead of a smooth transition, your character jerks up and down when it moves over things. With the slopes the game shares DAoC's problem. Instead of having an intuitive system like the one used in WoW where your movement through a slope depends directly on the degree of its slant (so learnable and then guessable by the player's eye), in Warhammer you still have hand-made paths. Sometimes you can walk up walls, sometimes you feel blocked by invisible walls. There were also a number of occasions when I was able to walk to locations I wan't meant to, and even move off the world, but these are problems that will be likely solved at release or shortly after.
The UI is pretty, well designed and serviceable. In particular the Tome of Knowledge and the maps are GORGEOUS. Best looking maps in any mmorpg. All hand drawn. Only downside is that the name of the location isn't present and it can get annoying if you're trying to remember where some place is. The layout and design is ported over from WoW, but as i said above in the case of the quest tracker, there are smart improvements here and there. I'll point even here two important cases:
1- Open groups button, right under your portrait. Click on it and see listed all open groups you can join in the area. As simple as it is, and added to the other nice features, makes grouping rather accessible.
2- HEALTH BARS. God, this is one of the best features I've seen in a MMORPG recently. You can set overhead health bars, everywhere, so that they show ONLY if the player is hurt. No fucking reason to have the screen cluttered by those raid windows. In RvR you can just look around and see at a glance who's hurt and needs healing. No matter if he's in your group or not. No matter if you have a corner of your screen dedicated to him. Makes healing much more natural and connected to what you see. Heal your target to full and the health bar vanishes. Work done. Only downside is again about a selection problem. Either they add a targeting key that target the most damaged player, or they make, once again, the bars and names directly clickable/selectable as they should with the overhead NPC icons.
Hell, I would actually FORCE healers to go target the models and forbid to heal by clicking on the UI portrait. It would make healing so much more meaningful and interactive. But as it is, it's already better than the rest.
Performance. I tested the game on a Core 2 Duo E8400, 4 GB ram on Vista and a Radeon 4850. That's a very powerful machine right now and so every comment I made isn't meaningful. Especially because I played at 1024x768 and with no AA.
The game was smooth at all times, but then it's supposed to FLY with that configuration. On the other hand I had some issues when I flied to the capital city. Framerate was starting to stutter despite the zone was basically empty. The problem here is DAoC's legacy. The engine of Warhammer is the same Netimmerse/Gamebryo. The basic render just doesn't have a good performance and they kept adding effects and stuff, but the raw performance was never good and still isn't. Compared to WoW the performance is much, much worse despite the stylish, low-poly graphic and my perception is that it doesn't even support anything more. The ground textures get blurry just a few feet away from the character, the clip range is much shorter and the world overall less detailed and well crafted, with the terrain more jagged. The zones not contiguous and the loading makes the game stutter badly when new characters show up for the first time.
I don't think that performance is going to be an issue for most players, but don't take anything for granted just because Mythic went for conservative graphic. The performance of the client isn't very good and a decent hardware is probably required to have a smooth gameplay in RvR.
My final impression is similar to the summary I made. Since I have no idea of the endgame RvR, the strength of the game is about the varied play, but that's also a potential problem as it remains a good feature only till those options are easily accessible at all times and under all conditions. There's a solid game under the skin, especially if they address those few problems I've pointed out. There's nothing that risks to seriously cripple the game outside potential realm balance problems, players' activity and RvR convergence. And these are all issues that were in the air and I commented years ago.
There's no way to foresee how these things this go right now. Wait and see. With Mythic it could go either way.
What is sure is that this one MMORPG has its strength and validity over the competition. It's not a mediocre clone without anything different to offer like most MMPRPGs released recently. Sure, WoW represents a large chunk of its design, but there are distinctive ideas stacked on top of that, and the potential to be successful in the longer term (especially till WoW persists in its horrid PvP design, thanks Tom Chilton).
In particular I'm worried at the reintroduction of the two capital cities, so the multiplication of RvR space and the consequent spread out of the objectives. All that risks to create unfulfillable gaps and destroy a natural flow in the RvR. If the action gets too dispersed, the game would quickly decline and fall again in the hands of organized groups that ruin the game and make it inaccessible and unplayable for anyone else. DAoC went already down that path and Mythic never done anything to change the course. Warhammer right now seems more collaborative and accessible for all players, but so was DAoC at the beginning. So place your bets. I hope that it remains a game for everyone and doesn't go rewarding just the hardcore elite.
To conclude, I'll list the priority issues that I found in the game, that could be easily fixed/adjusted and that would make a much better game in my opinion:
- Dinamically adaptable objectives for Public Quests, depending on the players' activity in the area.
- Possibility to queue for all accessible scenarios. No zone-dependent.
- Usable/clickable overhead NPC icons.
- Location tooltips on the map.
- A way to track on the whole map specific NPCs, like renown trainers, general trainers, flight masters and so on.
- Selectable names/overhead health bars. Keybind to target (or cycle) most damaged nearby friend.
- Implementing a goddamned skill/spell queuing that would allow me to look away from the damned hotbar and avoid spam keys endlessly. NOT FUN! (also playing a sound tone for an accepted action)
- Improving the collision system around objects. It's too jerky and too easy to get stuck. Annoying during combat.
And my old design challenges are still sound. Probably more now than at that time.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 20, 2008 - 06:29.
The thought gathering and writing isn't going exactly well. In the meantime you get this:
A smaller-scale WoW with a PvP vocation. Neither of its part are particularly brilliant or original but the number of accessible alternatives of gameplay makes it a win.
Got bored with PvE quests? Then go join a Public Quest. Got bored with the Public Quest? Then go join a scenario for some mindless PvP. Got bored with the redundant scenario? Then move to an RvR area and fight for control.
All this right from level 1. It's fun and extremely accessible.
The fact that the PvP is always just a couple of minutes away means that you always have a diversion ready when you're bored.
While you're dicking around your character continues to make progress and grow toward the ultimate RvR endgame. It provides a motivation and makes you go on, without being just progress finalized to itself.
What makes or breaks it: since the varied gameplay is what makes the game fun and strong over the competition, it can also break it. The game is fun if a "fine equilibrium" is preserved. The fine equilibrium depends on players' activity (having enough players, but not too many, to provide a target-rich environment in PvP).
The problem here is Mythic has no system in place to preserve the fine equilibrium.
If the strength of the game is about varied gameplay, then just think what happens if two/three months after release most players are at the endgame and the low level zones only have an handful of players around. Suddenly the Public Quests stop working, you can't queue for scenarios, and the RvR zones have no players in them.
What's left is grind stupid PvE quests that in this game are no better, if not worse, than the competition.
The game could have worked so much better with an adaptable server system like Guild Wars so that players could be chunked by activity and keep all zones always active and balanced around an ideal number of players. As it stands now the game is seriously undermined by that lack of stability in the players' activity.
Especially in the longer term.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 18, 2008 - 17:40.
I haven't played all that much these days as I kinda expected, but enough to have something to write. Today I started taking notes so that I don't forget bits and pieces.
I'm currently testing Public Quests and Scenarios specifically to have a better grasp of them. I'm going to write what I think of the game and both short and long term expectations, but I'm still completely unable to see the bigger picture.
It's not a matter of having enough playtime (I can already comment on client performance, look & feel, controls, polish and so on) but of saying how it really pans out the later game and the actual RvR. Judging that at this stage would be alike judging DAoC's RvR by playing in the level 10 battleground.
That also something I suggest paying attention to: do not believe reviews at this stage. Especially for *this* game the RvR can make or break it, and whether it is one case or the other it will be only clear a few months *after* release. It depends on players' activity, RvR flow, motivations and so on. It's just too hazy to have a precise opinion at the moment.
Anyway, tomorrow the NDA drops.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 14, 2008 - 16:44.
Got the book in my mail today. Hardcover, 340 pages probably going to be around 400 in standard mass market. Almost a "short" book compared to fantasy standards ;)
This one is going to be next in my reading queue after I'm done with Erikson's last two novellas. After Richard Morgan I'll probably go back and start Memories of Ice. Then Abercrombie again, most likely.
Waiting for more books to arrive before the end of the month...
Submitted by Abalieno on August 14, 2008 - 04:27.
So the servers are up. I discovered also why I fell into this odd beta phase, but can't explain. NDA still up. But for specific reasons.
Since I played for 20 minutes, twenty, and have no idea about the one issue Mark Jacobs is talking about, I'll break the NDA:
WoW is to Warhammer like U2 are to Radiohead.
Which is quite flattering.
Lots of things to say already. Will have to wait proper times.
While I mourn Lum's lack of opportunity.
We're in the wrong world.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 13, 2008 - 17:18.
These two from the second novella, The Lees of Laughter's End.
Oh yes, my darling daughter, the night begins! Many are the terrible secrets pf Laughter's End, an' could we fly wi' wings of black now's the time to leave the nest, derie! But who in this world can flee their terrors? Hands o'er the eyes, ye see, and voices t'drown out all sordid greifs, an' the mind has wings of its own, aye so beware the final flight! Into the abyss wi' all flesh left behind!
The stars swirled strange overhead and the Suncurl wallowed as if the wind had gasped its last. Black waves licked the hull.
But we are safe, darling, 'ere above the squalid fates. Like queens we are. Goddesses!
'Them nails, Master?'
A sharp nod. 'It is never advisable to loose the spirits of the dead, to wrest them from their places of rest.'
'It's kind of comforting to think that there are such things as places of rest, Master.'
'Oh, I apologize, Mister Reese. Such places do not exist, not even for the dead. I was being lazy in my use of cliche. Rather, to be correct, their places of eternal imprisonment.'
'Oh.'
Submitted by Abalieno on August 12, 2008 - 16:25.
I finished downloading the client on Sunday, but then discovered I couldn't play.
Mythic isn't handling this phase exactly well. On the e-mail I received there were instructions about how to make a forum account. After I discovered I couldn't connect to the server I tried to access the beta forums but discovered the instructions on the mail were wrong. Later on I spotted a post from Mark Jacobs stating that they invited a lot of players lately and had no intention to upgrade their forums in order to fit so many of them.
Without being able to read beta forums and figure out what was going on (or even troubleshooting why I couldn't connect), it was kind of hard to find infos. At the end I had to ask to other beta players on another forum and discovered that the beta was open, but only for some.
Apparently all the recent invites cannot access the server where current beta players are playing in, and we have to wait the opening of a brand new server "later this week".
I'm a bit disappointed about this. Not much because I can't accept problems in beta, but because communication about these issues was poor and because it's a bit irritating to know that there's first-rate beta testers (who can play on any server and have access to forums) and second-rate beta testers (who have to wait their own server and can't access forums).
Moreover I don't have a lot of time to play these days and I still wanted to have something ready for when the NDA drops. That's why I was hoping to get in as soon as possible in order to pack as much playtime as possible before writing my commentary. At this point I don't know what I'll do.
While looking around I spotted this:
After such a packed and satisfying questing experience, it's a disappointment to arrive at the RVR battlefield - player-versus-player realm warfare being the hook Warhammer Online is hung on - and find it barren. Deserted. No scraps anywhere. That's fine, you think, I'll just queue up for a Scenario instead: Scenarios are WAR's equivalent of Battlegrounds - instanced multiplayer maps, usually with a base-capture theme - and unlike WOW's tiny handful, there are dozens of these, one for each zone. But you can queue all you like in the Greenskin starting zone: you won't get a match.
That voices one of my main concerns from the very beginning when they announced so many options for PvP. And it didn't start even there as I was already criticizing their design in DAoC, when while redoing the frontiers they decided to retain too many zones and not consolidate the space at all.
As I said in the past in my PvP game design posts, PvP requires convergence. You may have many zones and variations, if you want, but you need also to build a "flow", so that at any time there's one hotspot where the action concentrates, or other density balance systems. Then you can move the players. Variate gameplay, moving from one section to the other, but you just can't support RvR or PvP contemporary on multiple zones and game modes.
It just doesn't work and it's the first requirement for PvP: reduce as much as possible the downtime and never have a lack of targets and battles to join. Low player activity kills PvP, no matter how the gameplay is great.
From my point of view, these problems are the very first thing you have to work on when you start putting together a project about a PvP MMO. From the previews it doesn't seem Mythic is giving this as much consideration as it should have. So the worries are on the air, and when a game like this launches it is then hard to go down and change basic mechanics to solve the problems. And in the past Mythic kind of made an habit to never solve problems in core design and only endlessly work around them, complicating things and creating bigger problems in the longer term.
We'll see. (and I continue to be convinced of my proposals to at least reduce the problem)
Sure is that even if I can actually play in this beta, I'll hardly have enough elements to guess these long term issues. It just surprises and worries me that Mythic doesn't seem to have any safe net ready.
As I wrote on some forums, it is crucial for the long term life of Warhammer Online that even the low level zones remain active and well populated for PvP. Or that may become, six months after launch, one of the biggest wall that makes new players bounce back and progressively erode the subscription base.
WoW's success was made through growth. Warhammer here risks to launch big and then slowly lose pieces if Mythic doesn't give those problems some serious consideration instead of being too worried about cutting cities or classes. The true problems are elsewhere.
Not in the lack of content, but in the lack of RvR convergence and activity flow.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 9, 2008 - 16:43.
I got lucky today. Won a book and was invited to the beta of Warhammer Online. The latter isn't so much about being lucky as I expect they invited most of everyone now that they launch in one month.
I actually had no plans to participate into the beta or even play the game at release (or write comments about it), but some things changed and it's wise if I give a look in advance.
I didn't see anything first-hand for now, just noticed I have a key for the beta and launching the torrent on the other PC to download the client. Since the NDA will be released next week I'll do a write up as I expect to have something to say.
For once I'll try to not write 100 pages of text and summarize what's most relevant, both from the point of view of game design and the average player.
Submitted by Abalieno on August 8, 2008 - 17:57.
But only from amazon.co.uk, as the american release is still to come (January, next year).
I just got confirmation on my mail that my order was shipped, so the book is out and in stock.
For those who have no idea about who he is, he mostly wrote edgy, contemporary sci-fi. This is his first foray into epic fantasy, still edgy.
It looks to be a good read, if you can stomach it.
Since it's coming, new and without requiring to read previous installments, for once I'll try and comment while it's fresh. So I guess I'll start reading it when I'm done with Erikson's novellas (I'm a few pages onto the second of the three).
Submitted by Abalieno on August 8, 2008 - 15:42.
Some old time readers of this blog may find amusing what I'm writing here. But it isn't a second-thought. I just believe that criticism is useful, but only useful when it is motivated. No matter what I wrote about these years, I hope that I always explained the best I could those motivations, and avoided gratuitous attacks.
This is just a post from the forums where I was defending Erikson from some criticism, but it makes sense on a general level.
--
Erikson himself has explained that he doesn't know how much the books sold, nor he really cares. He is interested in the possibility of writing them and being paid so he can continue, and the new contract for six more books confirms that things aren't going so bad.
GotM is some sort of selective process. He's not writing something for the commercial success, and he is content enough if some of the people make through it and love it for what it is. It is about building your niche of passionate readers and know that at least some of them appreciate what you are doing, the way you're doing it. If not everyone loves it, it doesn't really matter as long you can still connect to some readers.
On these forums there are multiple threads just dedicated to mock some writer. And that writer is one of the most successful commercially. Does this mean that commercial success univocally defines quality? If that was true one of the best new writers would be Stephanie Meyer, who already has her own mocking thread.
Every time a writer reaches some level of exposition all kind of readers try the books. More readers also brings more naysayers, especially on forums. What is silly is the obstinacy. If you don't like the books, then read something else, as the market isn't so shallow to not present good alternatives. But do not pretend to be the ultimate judge and that your idea of quality is absolute.
Confrontation is always good, but it's ultimately the writer who decides what to do with it. If embody it in the work as an attempt to improve, or just discard it. Erikson especially is one who was always open to criticism in his interviews, but in many cases he explained his choices and confirmed they were deliberate and that, even with the possibility of going back, he wouldn't change them.
That's authorship, and it deserves some respect. Not unanimous consensus, just respect.
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Submitted by Abalieno on August 3, 2008 - 17:14.
Exaggerating, but for some weird reason there's a passage toward the end of "Blood Follows" (the first Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novella) that I just love and kept reciting to myself (the same with some sentences of Iskaral Pust in DG, I had to recite them aloud instead of merely reading them).
Context is: there's a sergeant of the City Watch who's investigating on a series of murders and who's now going to interrogate two weird guys. These two are camping atop a grassy barrow, dressed in rags and cooking some ratmeat on a skewer, with some good wine nearby, since you can't really appreciate the ratmeat without a good wine.
One of the two sees the sergeant approaching and addresses him as a 'lowborn', and the sergeant answers asking what's so special about them two instead.
This the reply:
'Singular intent, poor sergeant, is the most cleansing of endeavours. Witness here before you amiable myself and, at my side, himself. We two are most singular.'
There. I love it.
On the other side I officially have a problem with Erikson's endings. Thought the ending of GotM wasn't fully realized, didn't like the one of DG, now even Blood Follows didn't end in a way that I considered satisfactory (I kept waiting for a plot twist that didn't arrive). Loved the novel, but it needed something at the end.
Now onto "The Lees of Laughter's End".
Submitted by Abalieno on July 25, 2008 - 15:58.
My decision to read Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas as an interlude before I plunge into Memories of Ice revealed to be a good one as the first novella, Blood Follows, is the tale of the very first encounter between Bauchelain and his manservant, Emancipor Reese (and these being characters that will appear in Memories).
On the forums I read the three novellas will be eventually released as accessible priced editions, in the meantime I'm enjoying my purchase. They are not an attempt to put a Malazan novel in a short form, these novellas are much different in style and Erikson seems even more at ease in this format than the longer books. I'm loving them. The writing is excellent, more measured and a pleasure to read. In a way it reminds me Joe Abercrombie, with more typified characters and humorous scenes, all coated in the usual Malazan myth.
Flavor.
Here are a few chunks, along with the very first encounter between our 'heroes'.
First few lines:
The bells pealed across the Lamentable City of Moll, clamouring along the crooked, narrow alleys, buffeting the dawn-risers hurriedly laying out their wares in the market rounds. The bells pealed, tumbling over the grimy cobblestones, down to the wharfs and out over the bay's choppy, gray waves. Shrill iron, the bells pealed with the voice of hysteria.
Bauchelain meets Emancipor Reese:
'Have you any references, Mister Reese?'
'Oh yes, of course!' Emancipor found he was nodding without pause. He tried to stop, but couldn't. 'My wife, Subly. Thirthy-one years--'
'I meant, your previous employer.'
'Dead.'
'Before him, then.'
'Dead.'
The man raised one thin eyebrow. 'And before him?'
'Dead.'
'And?'
'And before that I was a cockswain on the able trader, Searime, for twenty years doing the Stygg run down Bloodwalk Strait.'
'Ahh, and this ship and her captain?'
'Sixty fathoms down, off Ridry Shelf.'
The second eyebrows rose to join the other one. 'Quite a pedigree, Mister Reese.'
Emancipor blinked. How did he do that, with the eyebrows? 'Yes, sir. Fine men. All of them.'
'Do you... mourn these losses nightly?'
'Excuse me? Oh. No sir, I do not. The day after, kind sir. Only then. Poor Baltro was a fine man--'
'Baltro? Merchant Baltro? Was he not the most recent victim of this madman who haunts the night?'
'Indeed he was. I, sir, was the last man to see him alive.'
The man's eyebrows rose higher.
'I mean,' Emancipor added, 'except for the killer, of course.'
'Of course.'
'I've never had a complaint.'
'I gathered that, Mister Reese.'
To read in the light of:
The two old men scowled at each other, then Dully nudged Kreege and said to Emancipor, 'So, 'Mancy, looking for work again, eh?' Both dockmen grinned. 'Had yourself a run of Lad's Luck with your employers, it seems. Lady fend the poor sod fool enough to take you on--not that you ain't reliable, of course.'
Kreege's grin broadened, further displaying his uneven, rotting teeth. 'Maybe Hood's made you his Herald,' he said. 'Ever thought of that? It happens, you know. Not many diviners cracking the Deck these days, meaning there's no way to tell, really. The Lord of Death picks his own, don't he, and there ain't a damned thing to be done for it.'
It was true enough that he'd need a new job before the day's end, or all the respect he'd earned over the last six months would disappear faster than a candle-flame in a hurricane; and that grim label --Mancy the luckless-- would return, the ghost of old in step with his shadow, and neighbours like Sturge Waever making warding signs whenever their paths crossed.
'You're a sorceror?'
Bauchelain's lips quirked into a smile. 'Many people call themselves that. Do you follow a god, Mister Reese?'
'My wife swears by 'em--I mean, uh, she prays to a few, Master.'
'And you?'
Emancipor shrugged. 'The devout die too, don't they? Clove to an Ascendant just doubles the funeral costs, 'sfar as I can see, and that's all. Mind, I've prayed fierce on occasion--maybe it saved my skin, but maybe it was just my cast to slip Hood's shadow so far...'
'Have some wine,' Bauchelain said, pouring two goblets full and handing one to Reese, who took it gratefully.
'I'm sorry, Master--'
'Not at all. As the guard implied, it would have been unfortunate--and undesired--if you had come to any harm.' He turned an inquisitive game on the old man. 'Why so stubborn? You seem a wise man, Mister Reese--to assault and defy a sergeant of the Watch...'
'Well, I didn't want to fail you, Master. I, uh, like this job.'
'You feared losing it? Do not be concerned on that account, Mister Reese. We find you ideal.'
Emancipor looked around. We?
'And besides,' the sorceror continued sipping his wine, 'I have foreseen a long acquaintance between us, Mister Reese.'
'Oh? Oh.'
There was also an enlightening part. Maybe I was too dumb to figure out in Gardens of the Moon, but I just didn't get what was the distinction between the two twins of Chance. In this novella the distinction is made much more clear. The Lord pushes, the Lady pulls. The Lord is bad luck, the Lady is good luck.
It would be interesting to go read again those parts with the twins and consider things under this new light.
Submitted by Abalieno on July 15, 2008 - 22:09.
Deadhouse Gates is the second volume in the "Malazan Book of the Fallen" ten volumes (now sixteen) planned series. The eighth, Toll the Hounds was recently released in UK.
I finished the first book wanting more, while this one left me tired and drained. It's a demanding read, denser and deeper than the first volume. I let a few days pass to write some comments because I wanted to figure out some parts. The border between awesomeness and mediocrity is incredibly thin, this is another book that asks the reader a lot of faith in the writer. Erikson delivers, but in many cases that faith is put at risk and I can easily understand why some readers come to hate this series.
For me this second book is difficult to judge because the last 200 pages went in a direction I didn't like at all, so that conclusion undermined and made be doubt retroactively of the whole thing. Outside that particular aspect I loved the book. Without that questionable conclusion I would consider it the very best fantasy book I read, far above all the rest (even if I don't have this huge experience in the genre, so my superlatives are relative). It's interesting to consider the sharp turn represented by those last pages because of various reasons. The first is that in my opinion the quality of the writing and the style are worse than in the rest of the book, more forgettable, less imaginative, too rushed. On the other hand the majority of readers love the ending, so this is a contrast of my opinion versus the consensus.
It's interesting to consider this dynamic because of how it is repeated. There's a part in the book not only exceptional on its own, but that delivers one of those powerful epiphanies that makes so many pieces of the puzzle come together in a smooth way, all at once, all in the mind of the reader. You drop the book and the mind does the rest, and this out-of-text experience is so much more interesting than the usual passive reading. Not only there's the satisfaction coming out of it, but a lot of parts that made no sense in the first book are suddenly well motivated,. It's a so charming experience that made me retroactively appreciate the first book much, much more, as it is immensely satisfying to go back and find obscure parts of the text that acquire a completely new meaning and relevance. Sleight of hand, wonderfully realized in this case.
So you can imagine how much I was pissed when by the end of the book all those theories fell apart. Erikson fills your hands with broken pieces that look like useless garbage, you wonder why. Then with perfectly executed sleight of hand he makes you realize out how the pieces match, and the emergent, beautiful result. You spend a lot of time admiring that, repeating to yourself how cool Erikson is, and then he kicks it and sends pieces in all directions. What you get is another pile of garbage. And this time it looks very unlikely that things will come together again. It just can't happen. My trust in the writer went down at the point. Sure, if he's able to take those pieces and repeat the trick without contradicting every other part of the text then the outcome would be even more awesome than the first go. But I don't see how it is going to happen. I finished the book with that skeptical eye. The thin line separating awesomeness from mediocrity. A matter of trust, sure, but also a matter of *earning* that trust. Building trust throughout the book, to then shatter it to the end isn't the best strategy if you care about the reader. Rather risky. Success or failure? Genius or amateur?
Consider, though, that this whole dynamic happens out the text. Especially because it's all about making sense of the first book, and the theme itself isn't touched in this second book. So all this speculation only comes if you are actively doing it yourself, but it isn't part of the text or theme of the book. And as it often happen the speculation is only fun if your trust it is motivated and well founded, because if you discover that you only imagined the whole thing yourself, well, it sucks. Not only it ruins that moment, but also everything that came before.
The ambivalence contained there explains how it's hard to judge the book. High stakes. Either it goes one way or the other. And you see it stagger a lot.
Suspending the judgment on these out-of-text considerations, there are other aspects I didn't like and that don't have similar justifications. Two of the storylines are rather badly told in those last 200 pages. One is about Fiddler and company arriving at the Azath and the other about Kalam arriving at Malaz Bay. From that point onward I thought the writing was weak and redundant. There are a number of repetitive fights that could be spared to the reader (if the reader expects more from a book than some cheap action scenes) and that are ALL resolved through a number of unmistakable "deus ex machina". So there is: redundancy, lack of originality, and the break of the suspension of disbelief as scenes are resolved too many times through artificial last-minute savings. You can imagine how this all felt like if I suddenly was reading a wholly different book as it contrasts sharply with the grittiness, bleakness, dryness (in a good way) and realism of the rest of the book.
I also didn't like those scenes from the stylistic point of view. Battles between rats, bears and flies. Bleh. It isn't imaginative and the ordinariness kills for me the "epic", fascinating atmosphere. I'd expect something more original and cool looking, instead it feels like a zoo. Same for Kalam versus the ninjas. Like a bad b-movie. When Erikson uses conventions he usually spins them in some original, unexpected ways. That whole part with the ninja fight instead it's just deja-vu, predictable and cheap. And in both cases those are battles thrown in the book just to offer some badly described action scenes. Like if it went from a movie with a soul, to some Hollywood summer movie. There were some similar scenes even earlier in the book that didn't annoy me, but when at the end of the book you get one after the other, endlessly, well, it's too much. The redundancy is boring and kills completely both the interest and the sense of urgency and danger that the writer wants to push, and fails there. Then the insisted and unforgivable use of "deus ex machina" to resolve those scenes give it the last stab. Bah, from Erikson I expect (and was taught to expect) way, way more.
I'm underlining here how bad is the last part also to explain how good are the previous 700 pages (and more, since of those 200 only those two storylines are bad, while the rest is consistent through the very end). Far, far past my hopes and expectations. I knew that the first book was considered the weakest and this second one the second best just behind Memories of Ice, but still the very best for a lot of readers. Now that I've read the book I can say I agree. They all said the writing and structure was improved compared to the first book, but they didn't explain how much. From an objective point of view, the execution is immensely improved on every aspect. Structure, pacing, characterization and, in particular, the writing itself.
If you read the first book and hated the style, this second one probably won't make a different impression. It's the same style, but executed much better. I could understand if someone said the first book was entertaining, but made hard by the writing. In this other case not only the writing doesn't get in the way, but it's one of the first reasons why I loved reading it. It's so evident that Erikson matured and is trying to push the bar up instead of merely trying to reach a quality level. The first ten pages of the prologue are some of the best I've ever read in fantasy. A masterpiece. The second part of the prologue is actually more spectacular and bloody, but those first ten pages are genius.
One of the biggest and easy to recognize differences between modern and classic writing is how today television and cinema influenced it. We have descriptions that imitate cameraworks, action scenes that reply the blurring, slo-mo, zooms, dollys, fly-bys. The language continually changes and mixes between mediums, and Erikson isn't stranger to this. Gardens of the Moon was born as a screenplay and it's filled with tricks belonging more to the cinematographic language than literature. For example how he plunges you in the bloody aftermath of a huge battle, only to show the battle itself a moment later, through a flashback. Erikson loves to play with these tricks and keeps a creative approach to the way things are presented and how the plot is structured. What makes those ten pages of the prologue so special is that he does one brilliant trick that is impossible with the cinema and that is pure "literature". So not only he is aware of how the language changes, but he is also able to take the best from both and use all that creatively.
I'll explain. Those first ten pages simply describe a priest of Hood, shrouded in a mass of flies, walking down a path toward some chained-in-a-row slaves. Among those slaves there are a few new characters presented, and Felisin, someone who never appeared in the first book but that was still introduced and closely related to one major character (being Paran's sister). Now, if this was a movie scene you would imagine an "eye" that fixes and follows this horrific hump of flies approaching the slaves. You would see right there who are the slaves, who are the guards. The characters speak, you see where they are and guess their roles. The "image" presents and delimits them, the scene defined. But this is instead *written* text, you don't have to expose and spoil as much. You can select what to expose and what is eluded. The "eye" indeed follows the priest of Hood, is witness of the reactions of the guards, and then moves to the reactions of the other characters. Felisin and Heboric, one of the slaves. The attention is focused on the reactions they have toward the priest of Hood, the reader's attention there as well. But the surprise that comes later and that is the pivot isn't about the priest and its role. But it's in the revelation that Felisin too is a slave, chained to Heboric and Baudin. That came as a bit of a shock to me because I didn't expect Felisin there in that role. I imagined her among the guards, or just as an onlooker in the scene. The "trick" was about playing with the "unwritten", deceiving the reader to think of a situation, only to reveal a moment later with something akin to a chill that one of the characters already introduced and active wasn't an external observer, but one of the "victims". A sudden overturn that also makes you go back a few pages and reconsider the whole situation. Coupled with a mystery (the Hood's priest and weird things he inspires) that is chased and replaced by an even more powerful one (the purge and subplots related to Tavore and Laseen).
This is why I loved this book and also an example of something that defines the whole Malazan series. The misleading, the reversal, the retrofitting, the, once again, sleight of hand. Erikson doesn't simply tell an interesting story, but he invents and executes skillfully all sort of interesting tricks. He isn't simply master of *what*'s written, but, especially, *how* it is written. And for me that's essential in reading a book. I need a certain use of language that grips my attention. He writes these huge tomes in ten months, you expect the writing being perfunctory, with all attention focused on what's written and the tangles of the plot, but Erikson also plays with the structure and the execution, and there is no trace of rushed work. He dares and pushes a lot, is immensely creative at different levels. He knows he's writing a *book* and he takes advantage of everything written words can do and that is unique and different from other mediums. Today everything is a blur. Books become TV, movies, games, songs. Nothing is really circumscribed. Erikson doesn't simply write something cool, but he fully understands and exploits the specific medium he is using.
In that prologue he continues to amaze. One bigger wonder stacked on top of the previous. First the priest, then Felisin revealed, the the politics about the empress, then the introduction of a character that wouldn't fit better: an historian. And not just a normal one, but an heretic, knowing things that cannot be said and that remained a longed mystery throughout the first book. In that moment you crave for answers and Erikson hides them within an heretic historian, the figure that can tell you all you want to know, making you cling to everything he says. Gripped. And when you are there, longing for more answers and revelations, a total mess explodes in a climax and steals your attention. That's how you hook a reader, but with the downside that those hooks are subtle, and only effective if you are paying attention and "wanting". The risk is that instead of being hooked, you're just confused. Erikson doesn't lead by hand nor spoon-feds, and if you're lost, he doesn't look back to help. In a way, he is akin to Gene Wolfe. He says things only once, and the important ones don't even stick out. Either you are quick to jump on the train, or the train departs without you.
On the matter of structure, this book is easier to digest compared to the first. The groups and characters that have a part in the novel are still present in staggering numbers, but mostly grouped around four main storylines that proceed separately. So easier to follow as for most of the book they stay delimited and don't overlap. But this is also one of Erikson's most successful ploys as he persuades you to think within bounds, only to discover later the subtext. How everything is actually linked, how layered and filled with allusions to what comes later is the text. Sleight of hand. Masterfully executed, but only for the attentive reader.
This is not just about foreshadowing, it's not one-directional, but it also goes back, as history and myths here have active roles. They are alive and actual. The fun is in those nuances that are easily missed by the distracted reader. You need a trained mind to make a sense of the different levels, the personal character's issues amid the overarching plots, the web of plot threads. Erikson demands attention, and by demanding attention he also takes the risk of failure, as explained above. The ambivalence and risks that come with the ambition.
This "device" is also interesting because of its two different uses. The first for structure and pacing, the second as build-up. The convergence as a concept. Thematic and stylistic. Usually in fantasy novel the party starts together (in a small "corner" of the world to better present the story and make it the "escalate" toward epic), then splits up. This creates that alternation where one chapter follows a group and the following another, so that expectations are made and the reader hooked. Erikson spins that concept and uses it in a stronger way. Storylines start separately, but you know that everything will come together later on. This not only gives structure to a big novel (the alternation of plot threads), but it works well to "accelerate" toward the end of the book. Toward an explosive cliffhanger.
An interesting theme in the book is about the relationship with the gods. This was already touched in the first book, but is here greatly expanded. While the first book only looked at certain specific aspects, in this one the theme is observed from all the perspectives possible. What happens in a world where the existence of gods isn't just assumed, but proven? The first consequence is that those gods are "questioned". In our world people can be classified between believers and unbelievers, with various degrees. But if you believe, then you try to follow what the god says the best you can. If you don't believe, you don't. The only distinction is about believing or not. In Erikson's fictional world "unbelievers" are uncommon. Gods' existence is taken as granted, but it's because of this that the theme is richer. What if the god is lying to me? What if he's using me? What if the god is selfish? And so on.
In the case of the book people are suspicious of their gods. There's a hint of desperation as the relationship is one of subtlety and power. And even more interestingly, gods' presence is always in the air. Perceived but never sure. So we have both the perspective of gods as real, interfering entities, and gods as "impalpable" presence. Both the certainty and the uncertainty. It's even more faceted and complex than how the real world is perceived. This is not just an original idea thrown in the book like many others. It's instead an anthropological device that strongly impacts the cultures of that world and influences the way people think and behave. It all links to one strong skill of Erikson about the "worldbuilding". Not simply the complexity and number of elements, but about how deep they go and affect people. About how strongly the fictional world is made "real", while also different than ours, while also tightly connected. A way to explore humanity from unconventional perspective. All this wonderfully realized.
I've read recently that Erikson complained his readers care too much about the facts and plots, while he hoped that the focus was actually on the themes explored. This can be perceived in the book. The characters are vehicles of emotions and strong themes. What happens is a way to explore those themes. The plot is only "enabling" to reach that point. As Erikson himself explained, the fantasy genre allows to make a metaphor real. Experience things without filters. It's not a case that the characterization in this book is so much stronger and deep. Not only some characters are delved inside, but they also evolve in unexpected ways. In directions that are rather daunting. So not just a matter of all around, deep characters, but also the way what they are and what they live makes them change and become something new, to the extreme consequences.
Something similar can be said (and it's actually illuminating) about those scenes with the lapdog. I bet those who read the book are already chuckling. When I read the last scene of the Chain of Dogs I thought that Erikson had outperformed in epicness everything epic till that point. It's not about the scale. Big armies, big battles, big dragons, big explosions, thousands of deaths. Erikson has those but also shows how the "epic" feel is born around the emotional impact, around the human level. So the most important scenes aren't just spectacular visually, but they are poignant and moving. The sub storyline about the lapdog is the most epic in the book. Really. Filled with meaning. Another demonstration of what matters, another demonstration of inventiveness and characterization. Of a dog. A metaphor within a metaphor. Men so hardened by what they experienced that even their dogs go through an evolution.
A loud yapping bit the air at the vanguard, and as the historian trotted to join the gathered officers he was startled to see, among the cattle-dogs, a small, long-haired lapdog, its once perfectly groomed coat a snarl of tangles and burrs.
'I'd supposed that rat had long since gone through one of the dogs,' Duiker said.
'I'm already wishing it had,' List said. 'That bark hurts the ears. Look at it, prancing around like it rules the pack.'
'Perhaps it does. Attitude, Corporal, has a certain efficacy that should never be underestimated.'
I recently read someone saying that in his opinion Erikson was the one having most "literary" ambition among fantasy writers. From my limited perspective I definitely agree. This isn't a book limited to entertainment (not that entertainment has a "lesser" value), but it instead tries to move you, make you think, make you go through a similar evolution to the one the characters have. If he succeeds, that experience is unmatched and filled with value. In various parts of the book I had gone through similar reactions that I had with "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy. Parts that made me think and made me feel engaged in those themes.
I also read that some parts are pushed too far. That there's too much forced philosophizing even among regular soldiers. I had noticed and observed this but in this book it is kept below a certain threshold and consistent. Those who voices the deeper thoughts are those who realistically are enabled to (like the Historian). Moreover this critic is a theme of the book itself. Another attempt to defy conventions. Regular soldiers are not to be underestimated:
What makes a Malazan soldier so dangerous? They are allowed to think.
Since I'm fair I'll also point hot that not always this is smooth. Like the specific case of captain Lull who, after having half his face torn apart, is still standing and talking with sarcasm instead of laying half-dead somewhere. That's a case where Erikson pushes too much, and it is particularly awful because that scene was supposed to be the one closing an important part, so finishing on a dramatic tone that didn't work well at all for me. Too pretentious and unbelievable.
There are many more themes that are worth discussing and not so suited for a monolithic "review". This is why Erikson's fans appear like a cult. Either you are absorbed by what he writes and the insane number of threads hanging, or it just falls flat and doesn't work for you. These books produce polarized readers, but they are well worth a try.
The first book was hard to read because of the surprise effect, the approach. You laid loose and lone pieces of the puzzle. This time instead the thing starts to take a shape. You add pieces, put some things together. Yet it grows in so many more directions. It mirrors somewhat in structure the first book. There's a "core" theme that starts and ends within the novel. Then a number of side plots that works as anchors between the various parts. In both cases (first and second book, fete and Chain of Dogs) the core plot is the most solid, satisfying and better executed, while the side plots are more disconnected. Sometimes they go nowhere, are anti-climatic, a bit too forced. Inconclusive. And they are meant to, since they are used as links to the other books, and whose mysteries are meant to stay in the longer term and slowly build the tapestry. Where this feels weak is in the feeling that the overall story arcs are less consistent and well played compared to the tighter plots within the single novel. So what's meant to contain and be stronger (the overall plots and schemes) feels more watery than what is within (the core, conclusive themes in a book).
From another point of view: the sidesteps feel more solid and interesting than key events. In fantasy series this is a new thing. You usually have boring "filler" between key scenes that move the plot, where those key scenes are kept well spaced between them to justify a very long tale. Here it's the opposite. Strong themes within a book that are the heart of the series, with side plots looking more like forced afterthoughts to justify the thing together. But that is also another proof of how Erikson's work is layered and can be seen from different perspectives.
This book is, in a word, rich. And makes you richer if you read it. It reminded me in some obscure ways "Runaway Train", a movie that I watched when young and that shocked me. Even in that case "we get a study of what defines a man". And that's also the part of this book that is most successful.
P.S.
If you want to find the specifics of what I babbled about in the beginning of my commentary, look here.
Submitted by Abalieno on July 15, 2008 - 14:18.
I'm dancing and gloating.
Despite the staff at PS Publishing went in vacation, my book was shipped anyway since I received it today. I'm so happy. First because I was worried that I ordered the book too late and that it was out of print, secondly because I wanted it now so I could use it as a reading interlude before I start reading "Memories of Ice".
Perfect timing.
The edition itself is a finely crafted one. Compact hardcover, 320 pages written in a medium font (I'd guess 240-250 pages in content compared to Erikson's standard books). With an interesting introduction by James Barclay and the cover painted by Erikson himself.
In the US these novellas are being published by Night Shade Books.
Later today or tomorrow I should complete my lengthy commentary on Deadhouse Gates.
Submitted by Abalieno on July 11, 2008 - 14:39.
I finished reading Deadhouse Gates and gathering ideas so I can write something.
I already wrote a lengthy part, but the end of the book made me reconsider a lot of things. While I read often that the conclusion is one of the best, those last 200 pages soured me quite a bit. I just didn't like them.
If you follow the forums where I post you may see some of my complaints. Anyway, the book left me drained and tired. Instead the fact that I didn't like the end gives me motivation to read the third book and dig more to see if I like where Erikson is going. I need to grasp more.
I ordered the collected edition of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, hoping they had a few copies left, but I'm not sure if it was shipped and they are on vacation till the end of the month. I was planning to read that one as an interlude.
About those novellas Erikson confirmed that at least other six are planned.
Submitted by Abalieno on July 8, 2008 - 10:26.
Gardens of the Moon was recently republished by Bantam UK in mass market paperback for cheap and with a short new introduction by Steven Erikson.
I just found out that the introduction is now fully readable online.
Gardens of the Moon. Just to muse on that title resurrect all those notions of ambition, all that youthful ferocity that seemed to drive me headlong against a wall time and again. The need to push. Defy conventions. Go for the throat.
Heh... I can sympathize.
Gardens marked a departure from the usual tropes of the genre, and any departure is likely to meet resistance.
The rest of this preface is really worth reading. It may sound highly arrogant, but it's about what you set as a goal and motivations you carry. Readers decide if he succeeded.
Sleight of hand.
The cedar forest south of the river rose on tiered steps of limestone, the trader track crazed with switchbacks and steep, difficult slopes. And the deeper into the wood the depleted train went, the more ancient, the more uncanny it became.
Duiker led his mare by the reins, stumbling as rocks turned underfoot. Alongside him clattered a wagon, sagging with wounded soldiers. Corporal List sat on the buckboard, his switch snapping the dusty, sweat-runnelled backs of the pair of oxen labouring at their yokes.
The losses at Vathar Crossing were a numb litany in the historian's mind. Over twenty thousand refugees, a disproportionate number of children among them. Less than five hundred able fighters remained in the Foolish Dog Clan, and the other two clans were almost as badly mauled. Seven hundred soldiers of the Seventh were dead, wounded or lost. A scant dozen engineers remained on their feet, and but a score of marines. Three noble families had been lost—an unacceptable attrition, this latter count, as far as the Council was concerned.
And Sormo E'nath. Within the one man, eight elder warlocks, a loss of not just power, but knowledge, experience and wisdom. A blow that had driven the Wickans to their knees.
Earlier that day, at a time when the train had ground to a temporary halt, Captain Lull had joined the historian to share some rations. Few words passed between them to start, as if the events at Vathar Crossing were something not to be talked about, even as they spread like a plague through every thought and echoed ghostlike behind every scene around them, every sound that rose from the camp.
Lull slowly put away the remnants of their meal. Then he paused, and Duiker saw the man studying his own hands, which had begun trembling. The historian looked away, surprised at the sudden shame that swept through him. He saw List, wrapped in sleep on the buckboard, trapped within his prison of dreams. I could in mercy awaken the lad, yet the power for knowledge has mastered me. Cruelty comes easy these days.
The captain sighed after a moment, hastily completing the task. 'Do you find the need to answer all this, Historian?' he asked. 'All those tomes you've read, those other thoughts from other men, other women. Other times. How does a mortal make answer to what his or her kind are capable of? Does each of us, soldier or no, reach a point when all that we've seen, survived, changes us inside? Irrevocably changes us. What do we become, then? Less human, or more human? Human enough, or too human?'
Duiker was silent for a long minute, his eyes on the rock-studded dirt that surrounded the boulder upon which he sat. Then he cleared his throat. 'Each of us has his own threshold, friend. Soldier or no, we can only take so much before we cross over… into something else. As if the world has shifted around us, though it's only our way of looking at it. A change of perspective, but there's no intelligence to it—you see but do not feel, or you weep yet look upon your own anguish as if from somewhere else, somewhere outside. It's not a place for answers, Lull, for every question has burned away. More human or less human—that's for you to decide.'
'Surely it has been written of, by scholars, priests… philosophers?'
Duiker smiled down at the dirt. 'Efforts have been made. But those who themselves have crossed that threshold… well, they have few words to describe the place they've found, and little inclination to attempt to explain it. As I said, it's a place without intelligence, a place where thoughts wander, formless, unlinked. Lost.'
'Lost,' the captain repeated. 'I am surely that.'
'Yet you and I, Lull, we are lost late in our lives. Look upon the children, and despair.'
'How to answer this? I must know, Duiker, else I go mad.'
'Sleight of hand,' the historian said.
'What?'
'Think of the sorcery we've seen in our lives, the vast, unbridled, deadly power we've witnessed unleashed. Driven to awe and horror. Then think of a trickster—those you saw as a child—the games of illusion and artifice they could play out with their hands, and so bring wonder to your eyes.'
The captain was silent, motionless. Then he rose. 'And there's my answer?'
'It's the only one I can think of, friend. Sorry if it's not enough.'
'No, old man, it's enough. It has to be, doesn't it?'
'Aye, that it does.'
'Sleight of hand.'
The historian nodded. 'Ask for nothing more, for the world—this world—won't give it.'
'But where will we find such a thing?'
'Unexpected places,' Duiker replied, also rising. Somewhere ahead, shouts rose and the convoy resumed its climb once more. 'If you fight both tears and a smile, you'll have found one.'
'Later, Historian.'
'Aye.'
Submitted by Abalieno on July 4, 2008 - 12:23.
From the meetings in UK:
Erikson proved to have a nice dry wit, and his answers got plenty of laughs. He revealed quite a lot of interesting stuff. For example, he has signed on for two trilogies after the Malazan series. The first will focus on the early mythology of the Malazan world, while the second will pick up on events after the end of the current series. He also revealed that he writes for four hours a day, which can result in anywhere between two paragraphs and twelve pages of writing. He is currently playing 'Age of Conan' online, and criticised the way the NPC characters so willingly provide the information the player-character needs. He suggested this was unrealistic, given that people in real life would mostly refuse to co-operate or lie. He said that if there was a Malazan MMORPG, he would want all actions taken by the player to have consequences and would want the history of the world to be tangible. He also admitted he gets frustrated when asked by mainstream journalists as to what relevance fantasy has to modern life, and confirmed that the gender equality prevalent in the Malazan world was totally deliberate, a reaction against the gender-specific roles in other fantasy novels.
Can I work on the Malazan mmorpg? Please?
(but it would be REALLY hard to realize that world)
P.S.
I also add about the publishing deal that Erikson will release those books with a more relaxed schedule, so not one every year as he's doing now. He says it is too draining.
Submitted by Abalieno on July 1, 2008 - 16:07.
'I know you by reputation, Gesler. Once a captain, then a sergeant, now a corporal. You've got your boots to the sky on the ladder—'
'And head in the horseshit, aye, sir.'
'Convenient, that. Tell me, is the prophecy as clear on the rebellion's end? Do we now face a triumphant age of Apocalypse unending? Granted, there's an inherent contradiction, but never mind that.'
'Four voices,' she whispered. 'No bone, no flesh, just these feeble noises that claim their selves. Four points of view.'
'They know nothing of what is to come,' Iskaral Pust whispered. 'An eternal flare of pain, but shall I waste words in an effort to prepare them? No, not at all, never. Words are too precious to be wasted, hence my coy silence while they hesitate in a fit of immobile ignorance.'
(while being heard by everyone)
The possibility is… possible. A likely likelihood, indeed, a certain certainty! I need but turn this ingenuous smile on the Jhag to show my benign patience at his foul insult, for I am a bigger man than he, oh yes. All his airs, his posturing, his poorly disguised asides—hark!'
Such are memories in full flood. We are not simple creatures. You dream that with memories will come knowledge, and from knowledge, understanding. But for every answer you find, a thousand new questions arise. All that we were has led us to where we are, but tells us little of where we're going. Memories are a weight you can never shrug off.'
'Shadowthrone… uh… my worthy Lord of Shadow… is thinking. Yes! Thinking furiously! Such is the vastness of his genius that he can outwit even himself!'
Submitted by Abalieno on June 30, 2008 - 12:58.
When I wrote on the forums that I believed Blizzard had an advantage building WoW's zones because of some black magic in their editor, everyone went against me.
Well, I'm still absolutely convinced that there's some secret sauce right there. Call it how you want, the gist of what I meant is that for each zone Blizzard makes a terrain "palette" that guarantees:
1- A consistent and unique look throughout the whole game, and distinctive for the each zone.
2- That even if the zone designer sucks, things still look pretty and WoW-y.
Or: everyone can take that black magic editor and make a WoW-y quality zone in no time and with no experience. Even I.
"Evidence".
See the ridge in the background? Compare it to what we are used to see.
A "new feature" in WotLK is that they built a new palette/preset for the terrain, and the rounded hills now look more sharply cut.
The simple thing I wanted to underline is that what you see there is not the result of an awesome zone designer who spent his life modeling EACH of those tiny hills and bumps, but of a tool in the editor that allows even a monkey to quickly use it and get a consistent look that makes every screenshot recognizable. That consistent look that everyone praises.
Then I don't know if the zone designer person is ALSO responsible for the preset making. My point is that the "genius" is in the editor and preset. And that the making of a zone is much, much more trivial and easy than how people expect. And more concerned instead with the "flow" and structure of a zone.
But the "look" and prettiness are for the greater part merit of the editor and presets. And that if WoW still looks prettier than other games out there it's because the designers can use standardized tools that guarantee consistency and quality.
And it is not new (Warcraft 3).
P.S.
The controversy is that my theory is that other MMOs companies don't seem to have the same pre-planning and strong automated tools, so more vulnerable to the fickleness of their zone designers. Lack of consistence and all the rest.
Or: it's about the gears, not just about the people.
Blizzard has better gears, or spends more time making better gears. No matter who they hire, they guarantee already that the quality is high and up to their standards (at least for zone design).
Submitted by Abalieno on June 29, 2008 - 18:39.
Damn it, I try to avoid writing about games and then I find game related posts in book related blogs. If they can do it, I can too.
So Diablo 3 was announced, Raph restates the obvious, and I find a correspondence between the two:
Diablo was for RPGs a bit what WoW was for MMOs. Take a genre, strip it of most of its core, make it accessible, make it pretty and charming.
Think to all the complexities that came in earlier RPGs, from dungeon-based games with a depth unmatched today ("Fate Gates of Dawn", for example) to the depth of interaction in the Ultimas, or complex character creation and classes from D&D based rulesets. Complex narratives, quests, branching dialogues, fully realized worlds. Diablo removed all that to make a straightforward and addictive hack & slash game.
Today I think that Diablo 3 is going to be more influenced by God of War, than its own genre and clones. The health system is the most significant change, with the core idea coming from God of War, and appears to also being influenced toward a more dynamic and visceral combat and tactics. Things looking spectacular and cool.
In fact on Q23 I said that it is interesting to consider how game design in this case moved toward a very close relationship with "graphic". Finding ideas for spectacular things to show more than building new game mechanics and solutions. For example the way physics is added, the way demons rush up walls, the "wall of zombies", which is the same old with a more spectacular presentation. And everyone is excited. And that's game design.
So what Raph says is true. Nothing new in the form of features. And everything is adjacent to everything else. MMOs have been influenced by MUDs the same way Diablo is going to be influenced by God of War, and now even MMOs moving toward a more direct and visceral form of combat.
It's like EverQuest compared to Ultima Online. EverQuest focused on combat (and raids), but made it much deeper than how it was in Ultima. WoW honed the formula (and in fact the "drifts" like PvP still suck), Diablo followed the same pattern of stripping elements while adding a lot of focus on a fewer ones.
Broader with less focus, or more focused and constrained.
It's instead irrelevant to say where ideas come from. From everywhere. In the case of MUDs and MMOs the connection isn't about MMOs being sequels, but more about adjacent interests, overlapping needs.
It made sense to see people involved in MUDs being later interested in MMOs, so bringing along that sensibility. As it is going to be normal now to see MMOs being more influenced by intuitive controls coming from games in other genres. That kind of game design (like finding ideas for cool abilities and classes) now feels distant from the old MMO design all focused on players-interaction, world mechanics and so on.
Submitted by Abalieno on June 28, 2008 - 11:59.
Not much to report, I got my copy from Amazon to Italy of Erikson's last tome in its UK hardcover edition. Huge.
I can't do much with the book as even looking at the Dramatis Personae is filled with spoilers. 923 pages fully written, longest book in the series (will likely break the 1300 pages in MM if they keep the same format they used till now). The extras are a bit scarce, no appendices and two maps of two cities (Darujhistan is the same old, Black Coral is, I think, new, but it doesn't show a whole lot of detail).
On the other hand lots of people are reading through the book, so comments are starting to appear. They say it's one of the best "written" book in the series and a kind of 'calm before the storm', where the storm is supposed to the the epilogue of this long series in the form of book 9 and 10. Lots of minor and major characters coming back and plots being resumed.
Cryptic comment from Werthead, whose review I'll expect soon (and he was not exactly a fanboy, so interesting to see what he thinks on this one):
Took me a few chapters to work out what the fabled 'new writing device' Erikson was employing for this book, and when I did I saw how subtle it was. Quite intriguing.
But don't tell me what it is. I'll probably have a full year of dodging spoilers ahead of me...
Submitted by Abalieno on June 27, 2008 - 10:30.
Or at least it's what I deduce from Martin's last blog post:
Well, I've made it across the ocean safe and sound. Typing this from an internet cafe.
No, I didn't finish the novel, though not for want of trying. Nothing to be done about that but push on when I return.
Considering that (I think) he won't be back till August, and that he still has work to do on it, a late 2008 release is basically impossible. Usually there's a full year between the finished novel and the published book, for major releases like this one the gap is reduced to something like six months.
With the book probably finished in September I think the release will likely be pushed to spring 2009.
I wonder why Martin doesn't try to look at what he's doing with a detached eye and change his plans. The decision to split book 4 in two is where the original mistake was. Instead of surrendering to an endless drift he should have kept the plot tight, cut the meaningless parts and make a more lucid plan about where he wanted to go.
Scott Bakker commented this from a similar point of view:
I know when I started working on The Judging Eye, I found myself inventing a whole series of new viewpoint characters. I didn’t realize what I was doing until I started reading A Feast for Crows, at which point I scrubbed them all save one. I told myself I was adding these new viewpoint characters for the reader’s sake, when in actual fact I was doing it for my own - I mean, multiply the time you’ve spent with The Prince of Nothing by a thousand, and you’ll have a rough ballpark sense of how much time I’ve spent with my cast. The urge to "freshen things up" is almost irresistible, as is the attendant assumption that you’re doing it as much for your readers as for yourself. But when you already have a complicated narrative on the go, you really do risk drifting across that fateful line where your story starts to decohere. Whether or not this was what happened with Martin’s last book, I’m not sure - all I know is that it threw what I was doing into perspective, and led me to take an entirely different tack. It took me a while, but I eventually fell back in love with the old fogies.
In the end I think it marks another difference between Martin and Erikson. Erikson knew exactly from the beginning where the story would end, and the theme of all the ten books. Then it's a matter of self-discipline and learning.
Martin instead has surely other many vantage points over Erikson, but he lacks the same lucidity and now he doesn't seem honest (to himself) enough to look at the whole thing and make choices. The problem isn't about finishing the single page, it's about deciding what to do with the whole series, where to lead it. He could decide for example to end it with the sixth book, so that the next is the last, as one last effort to give a closure to the plot.
In fact I would be more eager to read an overall consideration, than updates whether he finished one chapter or another. He doesn't need to keep working in the hope to finish a novel that doesn't seem to come out. He need to stop, sit back and think about it. Where do you want to go? How?
Martin and Erikson are like reversed patterns. Where Erikson became stronger in the longer term, demonstrating his tight control and talent, Martin instead got carried away, was overambitious and now trapped himself in a corner.
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