I want to say this. If WoW didn't have battlegrounds... it would still have 6 million subscribers :) There is something outside PvP that people stick to WoW for. The points given by Abalieno is that of the two PvP styles in WoW there is definately one prefered... and thats world PvP. Even Blizzard has admitted this and thus canceled future battlegrounds and condensed those that they've released. Battlegrounds were great on paper, but reality they don't work out so well.
Can we draw the conclusion that there is a chunk of gamers out there that want a world PvP game? Yes. Is it as large as WoW's base? No. Oliver hit right on the fact that WoW sells because it gives a lot of playstyles something to do. On top of this Blizzard's business model is to sell boxes... not maintain subscriptions. That is why any massive improvements will be in the expansion... not in a patch.
It's easy to say "look at these numbers in WoW" and claim that there is a viable market for world PvP based games. However, to ignore all the OTHER things that attract players to WoW is ignorant.
What I get from this whole discussion is this... an MMORPG can't be built around one idea! Niche ideas result in niche titles. Niche titles are fine, but you will get a niche market share. To believe that an MMORPG that focuses on ONE SINGLE THING is going to be a wide success is newbish at best.
What Abalieno falls into is the trap of making the game he is playing into the game he wants to play instead of playing the game that offers all that he wants. I've read cesspit for a good bit and Abalieno is right on a lot of things... he just has to realize the big MMORPGs will never go after a niche and will always try to encompass as much as possible. The whole reason WoW became so big is because it finally broke out of the MMORPG niche mold and opened its gameplay to tons of playstyles.
Lets conclude this. World PvP is available in WoW and people have shown that of the PvP styles available that is their prominent choice. Players play WoW because of many reasons and partake in other areas they come to enjoy. It doesn't mean they are playing just for that reaason!
If you took all the people that play WoW *specifically* for World PvP and put them into a room you probably only put 250,000 players in that room. Same with hardcore raiding. Same with people that play to sell gold. Same with the people that play "because everyone else is playing" Add all these subgroups up and you have a 3 million total! Then multiply that by two for people that enjoy a little bit of each thing and you have your total! Blizzard gets it... do you?
And frankly... 100,000 players in EVE is more than enough for me. As long as a PvP game hits 100,000 its a success in my eyes. I suggest everyone stop looking in their current game for what is not there and start playing a game that has the things they are looking for. There is enough MMORPGs out to cover almost any playstyle wanted. Medieval fantasy PvP is about the only niche to completely filled yet... even then UO has it and has had it covered.
Re: PvP and faulty thinking - How to learn all the wrong lessons
I want to say this. If WoW didn't have battlegrounds... it would still have 6 million subscribers :) There is something outside PvP that people stick to WoW for. The points given by Abalieno is that of the two PvP styles in WoW there is definately one prefered... and thats world PvP. Even Blizzard has admitted this and thus canceled future battlegrounds and condensed those that they've released. Battlegrounds were great on paper, but reality they don't work out so well.
Can we draw the conclusion that there is a chunk of gamers out there that want a world PvP game? Yes. Is it as large as WoW's base? No. Oliver hit right on the fact that WoW sells because it gives a lot of playstyles something to do. On top of this Blizzard's business model is to sell boxes... not maintain subscriptions. That is why any massive improvements will be in the expansion... not in a patch.
It's easy to say "look at these numbers in WoW" and claim that there is a viable market for world PvP based games. However, to ignore all the OTHER things that attract players to WoW is ignorant.
What I get from this whole discussion is this... an MMORPG can't be built around one idea! Niche ideas result in niche titles. Niche titles are fine, but you will get a niche market share. To believe that an MMORPG that focuses on ONE SINGLE THING is going to be a wide success is newbish at best.
What Abalieno falls into is the trap of making the game he is playing into the game he wants to play instead of playing the game that offers all that he wants. I've read cesspit for a good bit and Abalieno is right on a lot of things... he just has to realize the big MMORPGs will never go after a niche and will always try to encompass as much as possible. The whole reason WoW became so big is because it finally broke out of the MMORPG niche mold and opened its gameplay to tons of playstyles.
Lets conclude this. World PvP is available in WoW and people have shown that of the PvP styles available that is their prominent choice. Players play WoW because of many reasons and partake in other areas they come to enjoy. It doesn't mean they are playing just for that reaason!
If you took all the people that play WoW *specifically* for World PvP and put them into a room you probably only put 250,000 players in that room. Same with hardcore raiding. Same with people that play to sell gold. Same with the people that play "because everyone else is playing" Add all these subgroups up and you have a 3 million total! Then multiply that by two for people that enjoy a little bit of each thing and you have your total! Blizzard gets it... do you?
And frankly... 100,000 players in EVE is more than enough for me. As long as a PvP game hits 100,000 its a success in my eyes. I suggest everyone stop looking in their current game for what is not there and start playing a game that has the things they are looking for. There is enough MMORPGs out to cover almost any playstyle wanted. Medieval fantasy PvP is about the only niche to completely filled yet... even then UO has it and has had it covered.