Five Northmen have grouped together

Unicorn McGriddle is a genius. This is taken from a thread on Q23 where this guy explains the idea of my "permeable class system" on which my dream mmorpg is based and that I tried to explain at length here.

It explains how I plan to solve some problems of accessibility of the game, and reduce as much as possible the "healer problem", or, from a broader point of view, the negative, disrupting dependence on other players.

This is also tied to the ideas that originated that thread and that I mirrored here.

This is also probably the best thing you'll read on this blog this year. It demonstrates that (some of) my ideas are solid. They just need to be shaped up by someone else who could "translate" my ravings into something decipherable. And somewhat succinctly. And not in a awfully boring way.

--
Welcome to Overexplanation Theatre
by Unicorn McGriddle

I think part of the confusion here is an erroneous conflation of the Mage class with the Mage role. Here's how I'm following HRose's "fixed classes/flexible roles" concept, illustrated with a simple example paradigm for a hypothetical game:

Roles:
Tanks absorb damage. They engage opponents and prevent them from attacking weaker party members.
Rogues deal melee damage. They are fragile and must fight on the front lines, but dish out the heaviest hits in the game.
Archers deal ranged damage to single targets. They are fragile, but do good damage and get to stay out of the way of combat unless something breaks through the tanks and rogues.
Mages deal ranged damage to multiple targets. They are fragile, but can fight from the rear and are vital for facing large groups of enemies.
Healers deal very little damage, but exist primarily to heal party members. Though weak, they can do their jobs without getting into direct combat most of the time.

Classes:
The Northman: Northmen are savages, barbarians, and bandits. They disdain magic and heavy armor.
The Teeker: Teekers practice telekinesis, creating physical force with the power of their minds.
The Ghost: Ghosts are the partially corporeal spirits of the dead.
The Siren: Sirens are sinister, thin-limbed creatures that look almost human. Their strength is unnatural and their appetite for souls is alarming.
The Experiment: Experiments were created through reckless bio-engineering. They are disgusting but effective.

In a typical MMO, one would expect each class to correspond to a role or compromise between roles. Here, however, each role is an option open to each class...

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Five Northmen have grouped together. In order to fight their way through the dangerous Lair of the Yoni Ghouls (suggested for levels 25-30), they will need to specialize, each in a different role. They stop by a Northman outpost and grab some new weapons.

Stf-u decides to be the tank, so he gets a spear and a large hide shield. He'll wade into the thick of things and goad enemies to attack him, keeping them at bay with his long reach and portable cover.

4me2poopon is a bit more daring. He'll be the rogue. He takes up his instrument of valor, the twohanded axe. He can do some very serious damage with it, but he can expect to be hurt seriously in return. He'll probably die the most often, assuming Stf-u knows what he's doing and the Yoni Ghouls don't break through and start enveloping back-row party members in their treacherous folds.

Beecock, the party leader, will be an archer, picking out key enemies and skewering them with his javelins. Aside from being pretty damaging, a javelin through the body is debilitating, reducing movement and attack speed.

URbraneONdrugz prefers the mage lifestyle. He stocks up on light throwing axes. He'll chuck them into crowds in large quantities.

GW_Bush, last but not least, will be the healer. He'll slap bandages on whoever needs them, do some hasty stitching if necessary, and if somebody actually dies, give them a bit of rough chest-pumping and mouth-to-mouth.

Now let's see what another party is doing inside the Yoni Ghouls' Lair. These guys are Teekers. The Teeker effects are pretty flashy, since the developers decided telekinesis should be visible and colorful and glowing. It looks cool in screenshots.

Biatch-Noggin, whose name is rumored to have been inspired by advertising agency Chiat-Day, is wearing his Control Circlet as usual. With this thing on, he can have three ghouls at once flailing helplessly as he suspends them in midair.

Farm4gold isn't really a gold farmer, just a daring young Teek rogue. A Flux Spike allows him to make devastating short-range telekinetic attacks. He is fighting a desperate fight against the ghouls that the tank has not immobilized.

Fuck_tha_EULA is on archer duty, using a Narrow Modulator to focus his will over long distances. The Yoni Ghouls in Biatch-Noggin's clutches bleed from their orifices as he hammers them like fucking piƱatas.

Shitnrotate, our intrepid mage, has a Network Projector. He evens the odds by lashing Farm4gold's opponents with meshes of glowing force. This weakens and disorients them, and Farm can take them down with a few hits while minimizing the damage to himself with a little fancy footwork and luck.

GW_Bush_SR takes the healer role, using his Ether Controller to protect wounded areas for the time it takes to shunt some lifeforce into them. Even as we watch, he throws the horns or something like them, and a bulky, glowing brace appears on Farm4gold's wounded arm. After a moment, the wound heals and the brace dissolves. In game terms, armor is temporarily raised, then that buff goes away and the hitpoints come back.

Still struggling through the newb areas are five young Ghosts. They are currently in the Bounce Palace of Fluffy Squirrels (suggested for levels 5-10).

"Fucking cover me," grumbles TiteBunz in a Teamspeak baritone as his big-titted but diaphonous tank trembles and dissolves into a loose fog for the third time.

"I'm trying," says AnalExplorer, letting loose with his risky soul-sucking attack. If he pulls it off, he'll be powerfully healed. If he fails, their foe will have a free shot at him.

"I think we're gonna wipe," says Prez_GWBush gloomily as she suffuses TiteBunz with a golden fog of reviving energy. Bunz recommences his/her attack, trying to draw the enemy into a frigid ghostly embrace that will slow and weaken it.

But the Pet Squirrel fights back. It manages a crit on Anal after his attack fails, and he too quivers and dissipates. Bush curses the cooldown timer on her rez.

ONoez, the mage, is of little use here. "I should have hit the rogue shrine," he says mournfully, and nobody disagrees with him, although technically the game lore calls it a Shrine of Soultheft.

TEH-Hannitizer, the archer, is their last hope. He breathes a silent, fervent prayer, and gambles on Terror Curse, which at his level has only a ten percent success chance on Pet Squirrels.

It bounces. ONoez throws himself in front of the ravening Pet Squirrel to buy the rest more time as TiteBunz drops again, hissing "Shit!" into his microphone. Bush rezzes the Explorer, and Hannitizer tries another Terror Curse. This time it sticks, and the squirrel flees in panic.

AnalExplorer burns an all-too-rare Rosicrucian Resurrection Stone to bring TiteBunz back, and together the party runs for it. Once out of combat, they begin the trek back to the Ghost Shrines so that ONoez can change classes to something more useful. You only fight enemies one at a time in the Bounce Palace anyway. Hannitizer says they ought to go back to the Sewer Warehouse Caverns and grind more Limp Rats. The rest of the party agrees to consider it.

Meanwhile, a party of Sirens is fighting Acorn Bandits in the Fields of Lingam (suggested for levels 10-15). Most people agree that this is where the game really starts to get fun.

YeOldeTymeRP is keeping the bandits occupied as a tank. His spindly avatar would seem lost inside its massive suit of armor if it didn't move so fluidly. He strikes the bandits around him with his armored fists, for he neither has nor needs a weapon. Their Arrowhead Clubs bounce harmlessly off his platemail. They'll make fine loot later -- most vendors will buy Arrowhead Clubs for 60 to 70 dorito yen.

FukkFakk is operating as a rogue, and there is a certain beauty in watching him shred Acorn Bandits with his razor-edged gauntlets. Unlike OldeTyme, he wears fairly light armor, and a few solid hits on him have him screaming for a medic.

EQsux raises his dartgun to his lips and pegs another bandit, whose eye erupts in a spurt of blood as he clutches it helplessly. Then the curare kicks in.

ALLurBASErBELONG2US, winner of a serverwide annoying name competition, dances through the bandits scattering poisoned caltrops like popcorn. Siren mages don't attack at range -- instead, they must weave through combat like rogues do.

GDubyaBush, the healer, must also be within touch range to work her magic (figuratively speaking). As we watch, she darts close to FukkFakk and licks his wounds lasciviously. They close up. Those wacky Sirens!

Lastly, here's a bunch of guys who were in the beta -- members of ForgotMyCondoms. One of the more powerful guilds, ForgotMyCondoms has gotten several server firsts in their time, such as being the first to complete the Grasping the Lingam's Secrets quest. These are their mains, Experiments created back when Experiments were stupidly overpowered (post-1.1 but pre-1.3). Let's take a listen to their Ventrilo chatter as they plumb the depths of Yoni Crater (suggested for levels 90-95).

"What are these things?" says Tikkelmypikkel, activating Fleshroots (which anchors him in one place, but gives him tentacles with which to bind and constrict monsters). "They look familiar," he adds, as several are caught in his web of pulsing meat.

"They're reskinned Limp Rats," guesses ChoggleTime, his avatar's throat bulging as he vomits a Toxic Bloodgush on one of them. "Remember in the beta, when all the Yoni monsters were rats? I bet these are just placeholders."

"So lame," jeers 80087355, using Longarm to send one spiny limb stretching out past Tikkel and Choggle to hit the rat. He impales it, but another rat attacks his arm and he withdraws it in pain. "Oh, so fucking gay! I can't believe they made Longarm vulnerable to retaliation. Experiment archers SUCK now. I'm totally going to cancel my subscription when this month is up." He will, of course, do no such thing.

GDubyaPrezBush, who is rumored to have a large number of alts on this server, steps up and heals him without comment, slapping a raw, veiny appendage slobbering with moisture over his damaged arm.

ePeen, their mage, barfs out a cloud of Serial Killer Spores and the remaining rats perish. "This area's lame, guys. It's not even finished yet. Let's go back to the Hysterical Chamber."

"No, dude," says 8008, "this may be lame, but think how awesome it's going to be when we finish it first."

Ahem. So to recap, this system means that while class has an impact on some nuances of your capabilities, and a major stylistic importance, it never excludes you from a group. Anybody can take the archer role or the healer role or whatever, depending on what's missing. No more LFG need priest, where are all the priests, oh god why didn't anybody in the guild think to play a priest. It's just LFG need five people of roughly similar levels and we can work it out from there.

These particular examples of classes are basically like races -- albeit more influential, especially in terms of art and animation. But HRose's "flexible classes" -- even the ones in this example -- are perfectly compatible with a more typical race system. Just read it through again and pretend that half of them are elves and have +1 to gay.

Re: Five Northmen have grouped together

I agree transforming the idea into a story-like example is great for taking your ideas and dragging the gameplay 'feel' into the light.

I for one would be glad to be in a world with no more "LFM - Healer Druid Only" or "LFM - No more hunters thanks." Just to be able to say, "Well i'm here, I want to play right now and we can decide who's doing what as we go. " I'm not doubting there wouldn't still be arguments about who's getting to do what but at least people get the choice..

My only concern with such a system is how you would give people a sense of identity. In WoW (taking it as an easily relatable example) part of a players identity is their class. They are a priest, they have 'this' equipment. They have 'developed' this character over time. If they could suddenly switch to a tank or a druid, then by extension they can't keep the items they have... or even keep the feeling that they are the only one to be able to carry out their role. I'm sure there are some good possibilities for maintaining a sense of identity though. I'll have a think on it and see if I can't add some ideas for solutions to this later.

Identity

Player identity is more of a social aspect seperate from game play issues. An avatar has a specific look, a name, known play skill, and various affiliations -these make up identity-. Being a cleric or warrior is a very small part of identity. A system that allows one to be more amorphous and forgo alternates (the bane of one's identity) actually helps player identity.

As far as personal identity goes being able to change styles/roles with your mood is probably also benificial. Sure, people have their favorite play style and that's what they'll be most often. Not locking players into roles would seem to have positive affects on both a personal level and abroad as I pointed out above.

Re: Identity

I would have to disagree that Identity is seperate from gameplay issues. To me, identity is fundamental to persistent worlds. Without identity, gameplay enjoyment is diminished.

While it is possible to have an identity based only on looks, a name, and play skill, it subtracts from the value of having a persistent avatar. Many people often consider their avatars as extensions of themselves. With that, they can ask the same questions about player identity that are asked about personal identity. "Who am I? What seperates me from everbody else? What else could I have been?"

If players can be anything they want, then it remains that only their real life abilities and personalities are seperating them from the other players, as well as maybe some in game appearance and Alias. Nothing about their gameplay character distinguishes it from any other gameplay character. Without the ability to distinguish yourself you may as well play an arcade game over and over again (Albeit one that remembers how many monsters you've killed and gives you some extra abilities each time you play).

Games with a lot of identity usually have elements of 'player roles' and 'customisation.' WoW has class, equipment and talents. The class allows you to have a role that you can develop over time. (A sense of history and purpose). The equipment allows you to distinguish yourself from other players (Achievement, History, Ownership, Distinction, Choice, Personalisation). Talents allow you to specialise your role somewhat (Choice, Development, Personalisation). Looking quickly back at that, it seems player identity is currently based on several factor's:

  • History - Giving a character a glimpse of where they have come from, their development, and a possible view into the future of their character.
  • Purpose - Letting a player feel like they are needed for something other than just an empty slot to fill
  • Achievement - Rewarding the player, through a new game artifact (ability, item, armour), for what they have done.
  • Personalisation - Allowing players the ability to seperate themselves from other players.
  • Choice - Providing players with the freedom to make a choice that impacts on their future.

While there's bound to be something i'm missing, the identified attributes above give a baseline for what provides a person with a player identity. Often there's a lot of emphasis on equipment as the provider of these attributes, with 'class --> role --> equipment --> choices' and that's enough. I doubt it's the only way of providing them though. And in the 'flexible roles' idea, it's necessary to come up with some alternatives.

Possibly some rough ideas : Dynamic equipment (what role you are in now determines it's stats), Non-affective abilities (i.e. they're nice to have but you can still get by without them), deeper tradeskill system. (See the recent post on this site about Herbalism)

I agree that Unlocking roles has many personal benefits, but allowing people to be anybody also risks them losing any chance to distinguish themselves in the crowd.

Identity, perhaps?

Social identity is about reputation. Personal identity does not need a multiplayer world, it depends on the psychology of the player, and how well that player can push his/her culture and views on the avatar's actions.

Choosing to play a rouge or warrior like a thousand other players usually in a cookie cutter like fashion has little to do with identity (in ethier sense). Class dynamic systems have many roles the player developes over time, there can still be talents, and class equipement. The dynamic system has everything WoW like games have! Just the reputation of the character remains more true due to the elimination of alternates. If you read more than the first sentance in my comment above you'll see the power of dynamic systems is the ability to elimanate alternates which absolutly destroy identity and in the ability to change as the player changes (staying true to the players current feelings and personal identity).

History, Purpose, Achievement, Personalisation, Choice are all in a class morphing system and most are there in a greater degree than current EQ like systems.

Meatballs and arrows

He talks about players being able to choose their roles at a special shrine and what not, of which i only agree in part because running to a shrine wastes time which is something developers should be trying to avoid.

He also talks about different looks for different classes being the major differnce between the species which is a mistake. The differnt looks fail to offer any gameplay value and thus are mostly a waste of resources. It would be like adding Christmas colors to a game of Tetris. Players are still going to be shouting for a healer and it wont matter if the healer stitches the wound shut or slaps a wad of regenerating meat on the cut it just wont matter.

Allow players to switch roles anywhere and whenever they choose. If you really want to lock them into some class just have them take some time to get in the right frame of mind so they can't switch in the heat of battle. Like an actor getting into a specific character.

Re: Five Northmen have grouped together

Let's start at the beginning. Why do there need to be classes and races at all? Aren't you giving the same thing everyone else is in a modified form? Not saying this is good or bad. Just looking at what is.

Re: Five Northmen have grouped together

Why do there need to be classes and races at all?

Because games need a structure and identity. It's important that the game is designed to encourage variation.

Classes and races give content to the game, instead of just having generic stuff mingled together.

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