EverQuest 2: some gripes

Queued spells

On the other post I criticized some elements of the UI, like the lack of a graphical mark to see which spells I have queued.

Someone then commented stating that THERE IS, in fact, a graphical mark. So I thought I had messed with some options and I went to double check everything again, without success. I forgot the issue since then but today I finally noticed the effect for the first time:

Look. Then look better. That image shows the icon inactive on the left and the icon active on the right. See the fucking inner border SLIGHTLY brighter? That's the effect. It's FUCKING INVISIBLE! That "effect", assuming that you are able to discern it even in that example, pulses on and off, where "off" corresponds to the icon on the left and "on" to the one on the right. Just try to imagine how usable it is in the game, where your attention goes to a bunch of things and you have at least two or three hotbars each with twelve of those slots to manage.

I swear I'm not joking.

This is one of those situations where I would like to look the UI designer in the eyes and ask: what the fuck were you thinking?

Then I also wonder what all the rest of the team was doing. Aren't they playing the same game? Haven't they played from the beginning of the development till now? Don't they see these problems either? These are really very basic and simple functionalities. The very basis of design. Something that is suddently noticeable. So, what they were ALL thinking?

If the answer is that they didn't see any problem with these issues and if this is working as intented then, well, it means that WoW truly deserves that disproportion in the success. Because if you cannot understand something as simple as this, you cannot understand ANYTHING about game design.

--
The pacing is all wrong

The gripes don't end here but the rest is about something more conventional, like the pacing all wrong and other odd things that don't work quite right.

My character is currently at level 9, with the combat exp till disabled. I still wanted to check the crafting side of the game so I tried to figure out how to access it. I already complainied about this part being quite obscure if you happen to "miss" the beginning quest on the noob island like I did.

You have very little direction when you leave the island and I had to resort to spolier sites since I couldn't figure out how to start crafting. I found out that I'm supposed to join some sort of crafting guild/shop. I had already found some of these on the game but I couldn't undserstand what were my options and on which assumption I was supposed to choose between one and the other. Anyway, once you join one of these shops you'll need to complete a basic quest before you can start crafting.

My starting quest wants me to collect fifteen pieces of "severed maple". Okay. I wish I had a clue about where to go get them. Right now I only know two zones beside the city itself: commonlands and the cemetery zone. So I went to the commonlands to discover that all the things I could gather were about the generic "gathering" skill and not what I needed. I noticed a few pieces of wood to harvest but my skill was too low. So I explored much more, hoping to find something at a lower level but without success. Then I decided to move to the cemetery and try there.

Here I could finally harvest the wood, but not the type of wood I needed. I had to rely again on a spoiler site to figure out what the hell I was looking for exactly and I discovered that the maple I needed could be found on the commonlands, from those pieces of wood beyond my level. So what I had to do was to harvest stuff in the cemetery to skill up till the point I could be able to harvest stuff in the commonlands.

The pace is all wrong. I passed two hours walking around the cemetery and just harvesting the pieces of wood. After those two hours I was at 13 in "Foresting", starting from 7. Exactly as in WoW (they are cloned, not similar) for each level you can up your skills by five points. Being at level 9 my maximum skills would be at 45. What I got was six points in two hours. Barely more than one level in progression. From level 2 to level 3. Doing just that. The rates of failure on harvesting are EXCESSIVELY HIGH, so you have to repeat and repeat with the "Nothing Found" pop-up appearing continuously. Despite the high failure rates I managed to collect 41 friggin pieces of "severed elm" and even one rare. But my skill only went up by six points and I needed at least 20 (level 4) so I could finally go out in the commonlands and be able to START my newbie quest (and that was another 15 pieces of stuff to collect). This revealed to be one hell of a grind. For a level 9 characters collecting level 2 junk.

As I said, they got the pacing all wrong. The high failure rates, the excessively low rate of advancement. It just didn't feel good and I finished to log out even if I actually had more time available to play and had planned so. But the grind and bad design got in the way and my interest in playing decreased.

I wouldn't compare every inch of the game with WoW, but the game BEGS you to do so when the mechanics are absolutely identic.

EQ2 not only uses the exact same skill system, just paced wrong, but even the exact same resource system. Around a zone you can find roots, pieces of wood and other types of junk that you can "harvest" and obtain resources from. With the difference that the resource system made sense in WoW while it is once again inconsistent in EQ2. In WoW the resource nodes spawn where it makes sense, the minearals near the mountains, the herbs scattered around, the skins on the mobs you kill. In EQ2 these spots are scattered without a sense, they are just random dots on the map without an attempt at an excuse. On top of this each spawn point is also not unique, so that the minute before you can find a "wood" resource and the minute after a "stone" resource. Totally inconsistent.

I was disappointed when I tried to sell the resources I gathered after my bags were filled because I discovered that the NPC vendors just don't buy them, not even at a low price. And speaking of consistence and another direct comparison with WoW, I also found a player mnining a resource on top of an horse, without even the need to dismount.

Why WoW must always outclass every system in the game? Wrong pacing, high failure rates, generic spawn points, inconsistence, impossibility to sell to vendors. I feel like I've scratched just the surface.

--
Hallucinations

Is this all? Hell no. While running around the cemetery it *continuously* happened something that freaked me out. I was getting hit by "something". I was just running around and getting hit by something. I could see the animation, the sound and a "-9" or so damage popping on top of my head. So I looked around but there were no monsters close to me or chasing, my health bar didn't move and my combat log didn't register ANYTHING AT ALL. But every five minutes or so I was getting hit again, sometimes even with multiple hits, with damage numbers popping up all around me. Still nothing around, nothing in the combat log.

I double checked everything, I examined the effects on my character to see if it wasn't some sort of odd DOT or disease but nothing. I was being hit without a reason, without my health bar reacting. I even thought it could have been because of falling damage but again I wasn't able to reproduce that, and the falling damage WAS registered in the combat log.

Still now I have no clue, but I'm pretty sure it's some crazy bug and not something intended that I wasn't able to figure out (you never know with this game). I actually think it could be because of a graphic bug of the client going crazy and "burping" some events out of synch by 4-5 minutes. Which is still really odd and that I never seen happening anywhere.

--
To conclude, a tiny but positive thing I found. I noticed that there are small objects around the world that you can click and "flag" with your name. Before the flagging these objects just highlight on mouse-over, but without any kind of feedback. But if you click on them the object will be flagged with the name of your character: "Gaen was here".

Initially I though this was a per-character thing. Like landmarks that you have on different accounts, but I found later another of these objects that was flagged with the name of another character. So it seems that these are little "discoveries" that are shared between the whole server. You can go around and hunt for these little object and flag them with your name for everyone to see.

This is really a good idea, something I never seen before. I don't know if the flagging decays after a set amount of time (I hope not), either way it is a nifty feature for the explorer types.

For them EQ2 is a much better game than WoW, even if the environments are much better in the latter.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

I have to ask you to try Lineage2,you will not regret it,is verry well done.
I see you play 4 games EVE,DAoC,WoW and EQ2,if you have to shose one of this 4,wath wold it be?

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

I was getting hit by "something". I was just running around and getting hit by something. I could see the animation, the sound and a "-9" or so damage popping on top of my head. So I looked around but there were no monsters close to me or chasing, my health bar didn't move and my combat log didn't register ANYTHING AT ALL. But every five minutes or so I was getting hit again, sometimes even with multiple hits, with damage numbers popping up all around me. Still nothing around, nothing in the combat log.

I have the same thing happening, and it REALLY bugs me. It totally ruins any immersion I was having.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

First off, the queued action denotation is quite obvious unless the action is dimmed out (for example, during cast recovery time), in which case it is not exceedingly painful to see. Even then, you just pushed the button 5 seconds ago, how hard is it to remember which action it is? Good job extrapolating this to insult the entire game's design, though.

EQ2 did copy several things from WoW that WoW did right (griffons, quest markers, what have you), but just because you played WoW first doesn't mean that EQ2 has copied every game system from the former. You could have 5 skill points per level in the original EverQuest, which, last I checked, came about five years before WoW. Really, try playing the original. It's just a less carebear version of EQ. With cartoony graphics.

I can get the first 20 skill points in foresting in 20 minutes on the newb island - you would have to try exceptionally hard to get only 6 points in 2 hours. And what's so great about static spawn points? All they do is encourage camping. The object is to explore and discover them, not sit in the same spot for hours mining the same rock.

No-value and attuneable items are in the game to prevent mudflation, which has advanced dramatically slower than in WoW. If you want the money for your menial labor so badly, just sell them yourself via the brokerage system.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

the queued action denotation is quite obvious unless the action is dimmed out (for example, during cast recovery time), in which case it is not exceedingly painful to see.

Since this denotation is about the inner border of the icon being slightly brighter, it is absolutely the same if the icon itself is dimmed out or not. Actually it may be easier to see since a bright color is usually more visible on a dark background. Or not?

Secondly, it's just not possible to queue a spell without dimming it out, since "being queued" presumes that another skill or spell is already in progress. Making your remark even more silly.

EQ2 did copy several things from WoW that WoW did right (griffons, quest markers, what have you), but just because you played WoW first doesn't mean that EQ2 has copied every game system from the former. You could have 5 skill points per level in the original EverQuest, which, last I checked, came about five years before WoW.

There are MILLIONS of elements that EQ2 copied directly. Not just an handful. It's actually amazing how the great majority of the systems are absolutely *cloned* and, even then, still not working smoothly (I'd say: poor imitations).

Still, you are right when you say that WoW copied EQ. These games are being horrendously incestuous to the point it is plain impossible to understand who copied in the first place.

My point is that EQ2 shines exactly in those really few elements that are original.

I can get the first 20 skill points in foresting in 20 minutes on the newb island - you would have to try exceptionally hard to get only 6 points in 2 hours.

As I said the rates of failure while harvesting are very high. For every piece of wood I found I could get one or two pieces worth of material or nothing at all. And this includes, I think, around 6-7+ attempts on the same resource.

At the end I had collected 41 pieces of wood. This means that I harvested around thirty, if not more, resource points. Maybe things are paced differently outside the newbie island, but that's what I experienced outside.

And what's so great about static spawn points? All they do is encourage camping. The object is to explore and discover them, not sit in the same spot for hours mining the same rock.

Get a clue. EQ2 has EXACTLY THE SAME static spawn points of EQ2. The resources spawn always in the same locations.

The difference is that in WoW these spawn points are divided by group, so that they can make sense in the environment. While in EQ2 they are totally RANDOM. And do not make sense at all.

No-value and attuneable items are in the game to prevent mudflation, which has advanced dramatically slower than in WoW.

Bad assumptions. Mudflation is about items (the attunable parts). And I think I haven't remotely commented this part. So I don't know what you are arguing about.

The no-value items would be instead about the inflation, which is not directly related to the mudflation. In this case there are plenty of better ways to deal with this. Like.. WoW (which has no problem with the inflation, currently).

Even in WoW you can go sell the resources you harvest in the auction house. Most players do this since it is more profitable and the resources in great demand. But you can still sell them to a vendor for a lower price if you prefer.

In the context I was commenting my inventory was full. I didn't need those mats directly, nor I was going to walk back to the city, rezone various times, just to put junk resources on the market that noone would buy. Instead I was just hoping to quickly sell them to a vendor and get some "worth" out of the two hours I spent there harvesting.

The result is that I had to simply destroy those resources so that I could continue, which felt truly disappointing.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

There is no way in Hell those two lines of yellow pixels are obvious. I thought the Fool had posted both in error at first.

Then I noticed that slight irregularity, green of course being active or green lighted (Driver's Ed) and yellow for the spell cool down or some other inactive mechanic.

Then he hit me again.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

You don't actually have to do that harvesting quest you're working on to start tradeskilling, just go into the tradeskill shop and hail the wholesaler guy (the vendor in there, not the guy behind the counter). He'll ding you to level 2 and give you your first book of recipes. I do wish there was more info provided for those that wish to pick up crafting later in their adventuring career, though.

Those flagged items decay, not sure if its a timer or just whenever the server resets.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

You actually don't have to do the wholesaler collection quest in order to start tradeskilling. You just have to right-click and hail the wholesaler merchant that sells supplys. He will advance the tradeskill level to 2 and will give you starter recipes without making you cut down 300 trees. Your point is still valid though, it's not exactly the most obvious thing in the place to do.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

I usually value your posts and comments.
I agree wholeheartedly with the interface issue and action queue thing.

I disagree on this:

---------
Why WoW must always outclass every system in the game? Wrong pacing, high failure rates, generic spawn points, inconsistence, impossibility to sell to vendors. I feel like I've scratched just the surface.
---------

What you think is "wrong pacing" is the reason why I like EQ2 more than WoW.
I like the pace, and if it's clear that 5 millions people agree with you, there are 800 thousands that agree with me.
I played WoW for 3 months... and I quit cause I felt that it wasn't deep enough, there wasn't interesting quests (compared to EQ2, mainly), and it definitely was a mindless grind up to level 60. Which came too soon.

That's it. I stopped playing WoW cause, to me, it had the "wrong pacing".
It was needlessly fast.

Luckily, the world is a multicoloured place :)

--
Drew Falconeer

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

No, I'm pointing a design issue, not a matter of preference, nor related to the scope of the game.

I meant wrong pacing in the rate of advancement of the gathering skills. A specifc system, not a general comment about the game. In two hours (and another one today) I barely got to level 3 in the foresting skill.

I've also nailed down the issue since I spent a few hours on the PvP server with a brand new character.

In WoW the skills advance slowly if the skill is close to your level, but they advance MUCH faster if your level is far above the skill level. For example, if I'm at level 9 a skill would advance slowly if I try to rise it from 40 to 45 (the max, since the cap is at five points for each level), but it would advance MUCH faster if I'm at level 9 and practicing a skill at 10 or so. The higher the skill (the closer it is to your level), the slower the progress would be.

This allows you to "catch up" quickly to the point where your activity would matter. Instead of going through a slow and boring grind.

In EQ2, and I really cannot figure out how the hell they came up with this idea, you skill up MUCH faster if your skill matches your level, and PAINFULLY SLOW if your skill is much below your current level.

If you are level 2 practicing a "foresting" skill from 5 to 10, you would skill up at EVERY ATTEMPT. Now if you are level 10, practicing the exact same skill from 5 to 10, you would need to spend two fucking hours to do just that. How can this be reasonable?

Basically: the higher the skill, the faster the progress. It's a nonsense. It should be *exactly* the opposite.

This mechanic is, simply put, TOTALLY BROKEN. It just makes no sense and it cannot be justified in any way.

It is so broken that it is probably a bug.

I HOPE it is.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

You ever toght why people say wow is for children and eq1/2 is for brains.Here you have it.
On wow they tell you everything you have to do,its not emercive because it is a linear game you level up get quests in the city you are,they send you to another city,more quests/craft,thill you get lvl 60 and start doing raids or pvp.In eq2 or lineage2(my beloved game),they are verry hard,you cant have all the quests if you dont look for them,if you want to level fast or see new places in your map you must find a group,and,a good one.
Usualy people play verry well in this games specialy in lineage 2 wen you die,you can drop a piece of equipment,so players are verry afraid to die,and they try to do things has beter has they can.
I am not a wow flamer i have an undead priest(done onix,ZG,MC),than i quit wen i was not raiding i didnt have nothing to do that guived me something bether than could get in raids.
In my opinion Wow is laking in many places and eq2/lineage2 are doing a beter job in that departement.
EQ2 only have one problem in my opinion,verry,verry good grafics,most people cant play it cause of that.SOE made a game that 50% of the house computers cant play it smutly.And grafics are verry important in a game.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

I forgot to say this on my last poast.
I wold like to see a WoW vs DAoC vs EvE vs EQ2 tred in this page,i want to know who will win in your opinion.You are doing a good joob here.

Re: EverQuest 2: some gripes

Oh, I like these "Hulk Vs The Thing" confrontations.

WoW is still the game I would recommend to most players. It has still the best design and overall best quality. Even if it failed to find a direction where to evolve and it seems it won't move past its limits.

EQ2. I would recommend it to bored WoW players who are looking for something slightly more complicated and immersive, to the harware geeks with VERY powerful computers and to the achievers and explorer types of players who tried WoW and found it too superficial and not enough incisive. Basically for those who want "the same game but different flavor".

DAoC is the less visible game, with some unique qualities. It isn't hard to get into and some parts of it need to be "suffered", but the best PvP and combat/group mechancs are still there. It was never able to really evolve past of its initial limits but that original value is still strong. Sadly, I would recommend it only to former players and those who search a good PvP endgame but that are already experieced with the genre.

EvE is the "niche" game. It is the most innovative one and the one with the greater depth. It inherits some of the qualities and potential of the original Ultima Online, but all these aspects are painfully hard to reach. So I would recommend only to those who search for something different and are willingly to invest a lot in a single game, and delve, delve and delve.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.