Quick note on death systems

You cannot compare that with a death system.

Mixing a PvE game (dancing against NPCs) with a PvP game (dancing against other players) is completely different.

The choice would be about the different type of fun. And not strictly about risk vs reward mechanics.

I discard completely "risk vs reward" mechanics. Imho, they are worthless. An exercise in frustration.

You cannot compare that with a death system.

Of course you can, it just depends on the death system in question =)

In both cases it boils down to playstyle determining rate of growth of certain resource. The player is given choice between guaranteed but slow growth, and uncertain but much faster growth, which can result in actual reduction of resource in question, if the player performance isn't good enough.

Mixing a PvE game (dancing against NPCs) with a PvP game (dancing against other players) is completely different.

Not really in the game in question -- as the actual play mechanics as far as each individual player is concerned is identical in both modes, and the player vs player aspect of the competition is preserved and identical in the 'npc' mode. Resulting in the "type of fun" being very close if not the same.

Oh, and:

I discard completely "risk vs reward" mechanics. Imho, they are worthless. An exercise in frustration.

In what sense? Given how popular gambling is in world of games, it seems quite odd to flat out disregard hard evidence plenty people are willing to risk more for what they perceive as 'high enough' rewards...

In the given example risk vs. reward makes a bit more sense than in most MMO environments, however it is still not comparable (in my opinion) to gambling.

In the "large" MMO environments of North America risk vs. reward means nothing b/c you aren't really *risking* anything (unless you count "time," but if that mattered so much to people you would never see anyone participating in any activity other than grinding for loot or exp). In EQ1 death meant lost time; in EQ2 it's a repair bill; in WoW it's a repair bill and a corpse run.

In the given example risk vs. reward comes down to money (den). My question is: what is this den used for? If it is used to alter how well you perform in any of these contests (potions, armor/weapons, etc.) then it augments the "risk vs. reward" formula. If I spend enough money and that lets me augment my character's performance then it becomes a non-scalable risk vs. reward with a difficulty level that I can alter.

The reason risk vs. reward works so well in gambling is b/c all the "equipment" that you gear up in (my lucky hat) and "buffs" you have cast on you (when a beautiful girl blows on my dice I am luckier) don't actually amount to anything and the fighting-ground is, at all times, equal (and naked--hidden from nobody). The reason risk vs. reward doesn't work so well in online gaming is because the level of danger is so preciously tied to things like equipment and character level. You can't design with "risk vs. reward" in mind if your relative player power is fluid. Otherwise you "reward" a dungeon boss who you deem a "great risk" and are disheartened to find out that players can kill him easily if: they come back after an expansion ups the max level OR they outfit all their healers with a breastplate *he* drops (kill him 5 times with "great risk" and each subsequent attempt becomes far less risky) OR they use some pathing exploit OR any number of things.

I never liked the idea of "risk vs. reward" in MMOs. It felt like something that could be applied to a pen and paper RPG where failing actually meant something. But in MMOs it never materialized for me.