First details about Warhammer emerge

An article/preview from PC Gamer about Mythic's online version of WARhammer leaked on the internet with some rough but already eloquent details about the game and its PvP structure.

The biggest surprise is the first few screenshots that are made available. If you were expecting a game with a harsher, gritty look, taking out the darker side of the setting... well, you'll be deluded. They are going with even more caricatural, cartoonish, oddly colored and odd looking version of WoW.

Believe it or not, I'm not joking.

Not only they are copying the look of WoW characters, but they are also copying how the environments look and the pastel-colored textures of the buildings. Look at the background of the big image with the dwarf on the middle-right. Tell me if that texture doesn't seem ripped off straight from WoW.

Even the style of the armors and weapons is cartoonish and clearly inspired to WoW.

Why Mythic? Why deluding with one aspect of the game that just everyone expected going in a completely different direction? DAoC has already a much more realistic look and the artists have proved to have a huge talent. You should have just moved further in that direction and create a more gloomy, realistic setting. Something that could have enhanced the feeling of violent battles and going in a diametrically opposite direction from WoW.

Instead they decided to go fight WoW in its own house. Copying its style even if Mythic's artists obviously cannot handle it as well. Fighting fire with fire. How utterly stupid...

What can be said for those screenshots can be said for the first "design" details.

"PvP will be broken into four types: Skirmishes, Battlefields, Sceanarios, and Campaigns. Skirmishes are... two or more enemies clashing in unstructured combat. Battlefields... fighting for in-game resources, such as lumber mills and temples. Scenarios are similar to Battlefields, except these large-scale battles will be instanced and evenly matched by the server (adding bots to balance the sides).. and factor the most into which side takes a zone. Campaigns will be the PvP end-games - a final, humiliating invasion of the losing race's capital city.
Once [the capital is taken, yay for wanton slaughter of NPCs]... the server's metagame will spawn in AI reinforcements, drive out the invasion force, and then reset the server.... You get to keep [all your phat lewts]... At launch, there will be approximately 33 zones and 1800 quests...

"The four elements of RvR noted in the article are actually designed to be much more integrated than the author of the article lets on – Battlefields and Skirmish play take place in a shared RvR space, and Scenarios are adjacent to those areas as well. Dominance in these aspects of play combines to drive the greater Campaign, which moves the fighting through the world to keep things interesting, and can culminate – if the attacking force is skilled and persistent – in the sacking of an enemy city.

"...we aim to create a coherent RvR experience where players can participate when and how they care to, and where everyone contributes to the greater war. Certainly not every aspect of RvR will be for every player, but whatever aspect is for you will matter, and so you can play the way or ways you want to, whatever they may be, and still be an important part of the war."

Yes, it sounds like WoW.

It's already possible to have a rather precise idea of how the PvP will be handled. There are shared RvR zones with resource nodes and nearby portals to instanced BGs. Plus a single instance of Alterac Valley/Capital City Raid on each server to replace DAoC's relic raids.

The difference from WoW is that these battlegrounds/zones seem more connected one to the other and the PvP space slightly more persistent. Similar changes in WoW would be wonderful and actually what I expected from that game. But for Warhammer? There were so many possibilities to explore, why chasing WoW's tail even here?

The model seems clean and building on the solid premises of DAoC, but why not fully utilizing the potential of a completely different project to disclose that potential that DAoC only hinted? Why the decision to go with just a bland remix of the same elements?

Some of the most important details aren't revealed, for example how these zones are interconnected, how the guilds will impact the game, the amount of player-controlled spaces and, hopefully, structures and so on.

For the rest it is just "more of the same", with a different name to dissimulate the "already seen" feel:

"..."Death" isn't permanent in Warhammer Online[sic, and they really do know it is WAR, he just calls it that 4-ez, as they say], but each death-ish mishap will bring you closer to the brink of insanity. Die too often and the accumulated insanity points will befin to drain away the amount of experience you gain..."

Which would translate as "exp debt" if we wish to call things with their proper name.

"You'll also get to choose from two different archetypes: the Warrior and the Adept. Warriors, not suprisingly, rely heavily on brute force. Adepts are better at skilled professions. Each puts you on a unique career path in which you'll be able to make selections that further detail your profession (A Human Warrior, for example, may rise through the ranks of being a soldier, a rifleman, mercenary, knight, and ranger - sometimes mixing and matching facets of each if desired)."

The archetype/profession system seems the same used in Imperator, which borrowed it from EQ2, which borrowed it from a bunch of other games.

While the NPC starting guilds exist already in DAoC, same for the emphasis on early-level RvR.

There are only two little points that are interesting, if what they hint is correct (but I doubt it):

PvE goes towards RvR..

Eschewing character levels altogether, Warhammer Online [sic] will be a what-you-see-is-what-you-get world.

That this game will be completely without levels and based on a skill system, I'll believe only when I'll see it with my eyes, and for now I remain highly doubtful.

PvE flowing into RvR is instead a critical problem. I was going to write about this for DAoC but it's a valid concept in general. The PvP absolutely needs a PvE side to be strong, these two parts shouldn't be kept separated as two absolutely independent elements. One should flow in the other, create a "gate" on the other side.

This is probably the most important aspect for a PvP game, right now, as it is for a "sandbox" game. The need to have PvE content as a "direction" to structure the gameplay and the game world. Slapping the players in PvP just doesn't work and is a short-legged solution.

Between the other things you can also enjoy Sanya hopping around the new community to try convince everyone about how Mythic will take into consideration the community, this time.

Re: First details about Warhammer emerge

/cry

I had high hopes for Warhammer. I can't believe they went with the cartoon style. Mythic has one of the most talented art teams in the industry and I expected Warhammer to be even darker than the recent DAoC expansions. You're right, Warhammer looks like a cheap WoW rip-off. Some of the screenshots look EXACTLY like WoW, e.g. the one in the third row on the right. It looks like Hillsbrad Foothills.

I'm hugely disappointed. It can't see myself playing this game. After 12 months of WoW I'm fed up with that style of artwork. I'm still curious about how exactly they will implement RvR, though.

Re: First details about Warhammer emerge

I have to admit that I was really struck hard by the sheer similarity to WoW. It might have helped if the screenshots provided in the article had contained some images of some units that don't have equivalencies in WoW, but none the less, it does look rather redundant.

That being said, I think there is large degree of irony in the sense that a lot of Warcraft's visual styling was drawn from Warhammer going back to Warcraft II (never played I). In Warcraft II the naval units in particular seemed like good rip-offs of Games Workshop products (I'm thinking of Man O War). Just browsing quickly I was met with a good example of Warhammer's visual style being very similar, when I saw the Dwarf unit Thorgrim Grudgebearer seen here, http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm on the front page. I think the look of that mini would fit right in with the Dwarves of WoW.

Ultimately WoW had this art style in the MMO space first, so I don't see how Warhammer will be distinctive enough visually and I agree it's a shame they didn't go for a darker route which was how the defunct Warhammer MMO was shaping up according to a sidebar in the PC Gamer article.

Re: First details about Warhammer emerge

Yes, the point isn't about who had that look first and who copied what.

The point is that it MADE SENSE to go with a different look exactly to mark a difference with WoW. Instead of imitating it (and the imitations, by definition, are always subpar compared to the original) they should have established a completely different path. Sending to the players a different message, inviting them also thanks to a different look.

If WoW is a game with humor and a cartoonish look, they should have gone with a much more serious, dramatic and realistic look. It would have worked PERFECTLY to create an "opposite", an antagonist to WoW instead of a bleached imitation.

I don't think I would have chosen bright colors to paint this world.


Re: First details about Warhammer emerge

Hmm makes Mythic's earlier comments from here a tad bit funny.

Then again can't say it's actually bad looking. The models are quite a bit more detailed than the WoW characters ... the environments do appear very similar, but this has more to do with WoW having done great work at creating nature-like landscapes without blowing polycounts through the roof. So it's quite likely not as much direct copying WoW, but rather both games ending up looking similar because they aim at similar goal and both do excellent job at it. (like it or not, the grass is green and the dirt *is* brownish, and if you want to get their colours anywhere near accurate you'll get end results much like what other equally skilled people already got)

Re: First details about Warhammer emerge

Regarding art style, I think you might be a little too hard on Mythic. I'm pretty sure (and I've been known to be wrong) that the original Warcraft look was based on the original Warhammer tabletop game. What you are seeing in these very early screenshots is, in fact, what Warhammer looks like. Had Mythic taken the art in a different direction just so it didn't look like WoW (which looks like Warhammer), the legions of Warhammer fans would have been completely alienated. I think Mythic are much better off staying true to the Warhammer look, even if it means taking it in the chin a little.

Take a look around the US Warhammer site, http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm , and you'll see what I mean. Take special note of the structures. They will look very familiar if you've played WoW. But Games Workshop had them first. (btw, I have never played Warhammer or any other tabletop war game, so standard disclaimers apply) And actually, Games Workshop probably lifted their art style from Japanese styles of art popular in the 70s and 80s. (and that's a complete wild-ass guess, but I definitely see some similarities)

With regards to pvp and other game elements, I don't have much of an opinion yet. I will admit to being a Mythic fangrrl, but I do think if there's anyone to trust to get a pvp game right, Mythic is the one. They've made just about every mistake you can make, and I think for the most part they have learned from those mistakes.

I do hope you're right about Mythic taking the community into consideration this time.

Amber

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