Dance, Smed, dance

I distilled a few interesting parts from the flood of posts from Smed on the SWG boards. Now that I'm gone through it I think I should have organized it better, dividing the general considerations from the discussion about the specific changes. This is what I have right now:

Our communication has been terrific. I can't say you neccessarily like what we've been saying, but I think our community people and our devs have been much more active than before. I never liked that system of correspondents before (they did a great job..don't get me wrong) but I prefer direct communication.

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The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.

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The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.

At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.

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I respectfully disagree with your position on this. The profession system had fundemental flaws that couldn't be corrected and still be able to both balance the game and add meaningful content that made each profession really matter and be differentiated from the others. Was crafting absolutely the most amazing part of the game? Probably IMO. Can it still be a major part of the game? Hell yes.. and it will be. BUT that needs to be balanced with the fact that adventuring and killing things needed to have meaningful rewards as well to reach a more mainstream audience. I really hope you can see this point even if you don't agree with it.

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Allow me to respectfully disagree with your point here - Star Wars as an IP is every bit as capable of delivering a WoW level audience. The reason it isn't is the game needs to be that good. No, not the SAME game.. but it needs to be that good and polished. Everyone thinks we are trying to make SWG like WoW or EQ2. That's completely not the case. Yes, we're going to a more rigid class based system and are doing more linear content.. but that's where the similarities end IMO. In theory we still have an incredibly deep and rich system based MMO that can deliver some world class gameplay once we live up to your expectations.

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SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact. Could we have gone a different direction with the combat? Yes. Could we in the future change this direction? Yes. Do I think we will? No. Why? Because I don't believe that this will be an issue if we solve the other half of the equation - making the professions feel different... and making the content really exciting.

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Let's get this out of the way right now - SWG in no way has a low sub base. That's just not the fact. The truth is it's still the #4 game in North America (WoW, EQ2, EQ, SWG). I'm sure this will bring the naysayers out of the woodwork, but it's just a fact.

I also totally disagree with our assertion that we can't make this game the biggest and best MMO out there. We still have a full dev-team on this game and we're going to absolutely push ourselves until we achieve our goals. Noone is going into coasting mode on this game. Period.

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The only answer I can give you on trust is that we have to earn that trust by continuing to make forward progress. That's it. We know that.

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What exactly was the difference between most of the combat professions? There really wasn't one unfortunately. Adding meaningful content for over 30 professions just wasn't something we were capable of. We bit off more than we could chew. Also, the fact that a person who had seen the movies won't know what most of those professions were presented a real problem for aquisition.

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You will never hear me saying the people that are complaining aren't passionate about wanting things to be like they were before. In fact, if there is one big lesson I've learned from all of this it's how NOT to go about making big changes in a game

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I don't like trying to pass the buck. I may say stuff you disagree with, but I don't want to try to imply something that's not true. You may all believe that early on with the NGE we were just "spinning" things. We weren't.. we honestly believed (and still do) that we could make the game better and convince you all that this was the right direction.

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I actually think this is something that will make things a lot better. I'm not sure where it is in the pipeline of things to do, but I think having mobs not all bunch up will fix a lot of what people complain about. Unfortunately this is not a simple technical problem to solve. It sounds like it is, but on the server side the single biggest frame rate killer is collisions for a lot of reasons I won't get into. We need to solve this problem. I don't have an ETA yet though.

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we've lost some dev team members. A lot of new companies have sprung up in Austin and we lost some key people... new people take time to ramp up. Simple as that. NCsoft and others are losing people too. This is a competitive job market. Seriously competitive.

Not from Smed:

We recognize that the current profession system doesn't allow for any real level of character differentiation. As such, we're currently working on an "Expertise" system, that grants the players "points" to spend on specialization. The expertise system gives the profession system a similar feel to what we had pre-nge as far as character customization goes. The tech for this system is being developed for the next publish (this won't be visible to you guys). The publish after that, we're looking at pushing out the first two professions's worth of expertise trees, with two professions targeted for every publish after that. Generally speaking, we'll have three trees for each profession to choose from, including a GCW tree and a "path" tree that will hold things like "dark" and "light" side powers for Jedi, for instance (or droid specializtion, vs poisons for Bounty hunters - for instance).

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(about the respec NPCs that will be added)
Starts 100k credits and goes up to 25 million i think.

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Lots of talk about the "secret" project which really isn't a secret anymore. We are doing a playable demo for E3 and Swede is working on the team that is putting that together. The project is actually going to be larger then just the demo and become a new themepark with a GCW theme (lots of Rebels v. Imperials) to it, which will be put into the game in publish 29.

The intention of this themepark is to cover our bases with E3 and develope a new set of repeatable, high end content for all of you.

The expansion team, which is no more, is now working on nothing but high end content that will be sent out in our regular publishes.

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(about collision detection)
We are still working on it. It is a huge change to the core game, so we want to make sure it is solid before we roll it out in a publish.

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Animations - We will be doing some significant work on our animation system in the upcoming months. The collision system we are working on will allow us to get jumping into the game.

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We're going to put the stuff that's clearly SW in first. We're going to modify or retrofit the best of what was fun but not completely SW in second. We're going to remove or eliminate those things that clearly aren't SW.

And, we're going to do it all at a pace that ensures quality and fun.

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SWG is no longer striving to be a world simulation.

There would be so many things to say about all this.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

Gawd... even though I've read all of this drivel before, it's hard to take in all at once. Thanks for condensing all the bullshit into a nice easy to read format.

Way to many things to comment on, It's like an open green pasture of hypocrisy waiting to be plowed. It's akin to a fountain of streaming lies that after time, cut crevises into the very foundation of the convoluted half truths that the lies were supposed to help support.

I have no comment on this one, way too easy.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

"SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact."

I've been through their exit survey. Given it has a limited number of reasons why you quit, you can't add any other reasons than the ones they like and you have to choose at least two of their reasons why you quit, I can't see how they got any cold facts out of it...

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

The whole thing about focus group and polls is horribly flawed. I hope they'll figure out that point one day.

It's the fundamental duty of the designers to observe and understand the game to figure out what works and what doesn't. If they need polls and focus tests it means they are doing their work badly.

Those are just a waste of time and resources. We all know what was wrong in SWG back then and what is wrong right now. We may have different ideas on how to solve the problems, but you definitely doesn't need any focus group to tell you what the game is about and where are its limits.

I always boycott every form of poll of survey because I know that in the great majority of the cases my opinion will be just distorted.

Players' feedback is like the unconscious of the game. It needs to be interpreted, not seconded.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

I thought we discussed focus groups HERE.

Let's start with this.

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The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.

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If I read this correctly, Smed is saying that soon as they find the "baseline" fun factor they will communicate with their player base.

How exacatly do you quatinfy a "fun factor"?

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

next:

At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.

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Sorry's are nice, Thanks! All us SWG Vets that played your "hardcore game" for 2 odd years really appreciate that!

Maybe us vets are the ones that should apologize.

We're sorry that we played your crappy ass game and stuck with you for 2 years only to be jabbed in the balls cause we're not "The Masses".

We're sorry we did'nt cancel our subscriptions of SWG back in 2004 when the "CU" came out.

We are sorry.. please forgive us.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

Bah, so much fields to be plowed...

next:
The only answer I can give you on trust is that we have to earn that trust by continuing to make forward progress. That's it. We know that.

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Trust?..Im sorry, I have to do this...

HAHAHAHHAHHHHAHAHAHHAHHHHHAHHHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA!

I apologize, really couldn't hold it in.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

Let's plow this field shall we?

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I respectfully disagree with your position on this. The profession system had fundemental flaws that couldn't be corrected and still be able to both balance the game and add meaningful content that made each profession really matter and be differentiated from the others. Was crafting absolutely the most amazing part of the game? Probably IMO. Can it still be a major part of the game? Hell yes.. and it will be. BUT that needs to be balanced with the fact that adventuring and killing things needed to have meaningful rewards as well to reach a more mainstream audience. I really hope you can see this point even if you don't agree with it.

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We see your point Smed, you agree that crafting was a very intrigul part of the game. But yet in your quest to gain "The Masses" you made crafting an impotent and useless profession.

The need to balance professions had nothing to do with the crafting or even the entertainment professions, how often did crafters or entertainers go PVP'n or hell, even PVE'n?

There was no reason to "phase out" these professions, wait... maybe there was a reason, cause they were'nt "Star Warsy" enough.

SWG tapped into a whole new market of people that don't necessarily enjoy a "hack and slash" type MMOG. These people actually enjoy crafting things, entertaining people and setting up businesses to sell their wares.

I understand your point of view Smed, you still believe that instant gratification is the key to success in an MMOG. Your failure to realize that quite the opposite is true to have a faithful following in any MMOG. It's unfolding now, check your latest sub numbers.

Crafters and entertainers may have not necessarlily been the "Masses" that you were looking for Smed, but they sure were a sizeable chunk of the SWG player base.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

What did you expect from the man who proclaims FPS are his favorite games? Maybe the real problem with SWG is all the guys making the decisions and setting the path for the game love a different type of game completely and can't fathom why/how to make a decent MMORPG.

One of these days, one of the higher-ups in the Sony empire will finally realize they aren't making shit compared to other game companies and the good ol' days are long over, and there is just one guy who can answer for that.

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

My personal favorite comment: "We were losing more subs before the NGE as opposed to after it".

I can think of at least three seperate ways that can be literally true and also be a lie so large that God cringed.

For instance, I have no doubt that from Nov 1 2005 (NGE formally announced, test server opened) to Nov 15 2005 (NGE went live) saw such a HUGE number of cancellations -- as a percentage -- that the NGE is certainly losing far fewer per week.

If, just for giggles, 25% or more of your subs quit in a single two week span, ANY post-NGE period is going to look golden.

What gets me is that Smed made something like 100 posts there. Why? Judging by the content, they probably just killed off the rest of the crafters and Ents, and gained...nothing. There was a really nasty "Fuck you customers" undercurrent to the whole thread as well. Smed may having been trying to soothe the masses, but the devs he dragging in were releasing design decisions that seemed aimed at inflaming the players left.

How does he justify to HIS bosses contuining to throw cash at this?

Re: Dance, Smed, dance

I think his bosses are ignorant of the gaming business and just trust their "golden boy" Smedley because he supposedly knows gaming, as look at the success EQ had.

Look at the computer industry as a whole when it first began. You had old non-tech companies buying up all these upstart tech companies because they were making a ton of profit, but the old coots running things didn't know squat about tech, so they hired the guys who were said they did and left them alone until the money spout started to shut down.

It is even worse in the case of SOE as their parent company is a movie company who has seen some hard times and even a underperformer like Smedley's division might seem to be a good thing overall.

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