Things you cannot do in mmorpgs

I noticed that Aggro Me linked a video with EQ2 players doing crazy jumps around Freeport. It reminded another video that I saw the day before about a totally insane domino setup made in Oblivion.

"Empowering the players", or: things you cannot do in mmorpgs.

Try for example to do those jump in Guild Wars, or, in the case of the domino example, try to give the players the possibility to dig holes in the terrain. The day after the whole world would be transformed in a Gruyere.

When I was imagining my "dream mmorpg" and thinking about focusing on the interaction, I got the idea of allowing players to "push" each other. Well, a simple feature like this would be already a disaster, but also "magic". Think for example of sitting near a cliff, watching the panorama. A player passes by and pushes you down the cliff. See ya. It's already a mini-game!

Add a platform as a limited space, add five players on it and then let them toy with the "push" function to see who's the last one to remain standing on the platform.

It could be already a fun model that could lead to add some variation in a game and add to the experience. For example those thoughts lead me to imagine the "inferno" zone. A full PvP zone mingled with PvE where squads of players have to move around with flying platforms. Through a simple physics model these platform can bend in a direction (depending on triggers or players' position) and the inclination would affect the physics model. Add both PvE and PvP combat to this situation and you would have the most crazed experience ever in a mmorpg.

There are lots of possibilities. During WoW's beta you could create fireplaces to cook stuff, it's still possible in the game. But during beta these fireplaces had collision on and the players learnt to use them to create absurd piles as ladders to reach unreachable places. I remember insane piles in Ironforge going up to the roof where the gryphon passes right now and people sitting on top of the auction house. The result? Blizzard removed the collision from the fireplaces so that you couldn't stack them anymore.

While it's not possible to give the players "control" in a game, all these tools can be extremely innovative and precious *in a mmorpg*. Not in a single-player game. These features aren't a limit in a cooperative game, they are a potential that must be governed. It's when you can affect other players that things become interesting, that what you do achieves a meaning. The interaction becomes the focus of the game. A game-world becoming consistent and moving steps away from game-y environments where you can only follow what is strictly part of the game. The overall idea of a "world" as opposed to just a game.

3D is powerful even for that reason. You can look around and turn in the direction you weren't supposed to look to. Or jump and reach places where you weren't meant to be.

At the end the driving purpose of these mechanics was the "immersion". Or the possibility to shape an environment coherently with the expectations of the player. Or: self-consistence.

If it isn't possible to give the players the control, it's still viable a modular approach. The video from Oblivion suggested me some interesting possibilities for a "trap system". Think for example to a PvP environment where the players can conquer territories and castles. It could be possible to build a simple trap system made modular so that a castle would have a number of hook points where you could place triggers and related traps. With a good modularity (different triggers, different traps, linked triggers and traps etc..) it could be easily possible to remove the predictability and obtain a system that still plays within the rules while adding variance to the game. Think about then letting the players set traps in the forests, set alarms and so on.

All these tools would add very little to a single player game, but they could become truly interesting in a game where you have more ways to interact and affect other players. With rules so that these systems cannot be used out of their context.

Adding this type of "variation" and focus to other types of interaction beside combat and enhanced treadmills, are ways to shape an immersive world. Think about going to hunt in a forest, and have the animals not react just to aggro radiuses, but to sound and line of sight, so that you would have to sneak in slowly and pay attention to not scare your prey and let it run away (instead of suddenly charge against you in every case).

These are ways to make the experience richer and more immersive. To create truly interesting and FUN virtual worlds. This is the "variety" I want to see. Consistent and immersive. Not penguins and metaverses.

Re: Things you cannot do in mmorpgs

These things are nice, but how do we deal with the playerbase using these tools to be assholes to each other?

The players are why we can't have nice things.

One of the first things people seem to do is figure out how "X" feature can be used to make someone else miserable - if you have an answer as to how to provide these features to players without them abusing others with it, please share.

You're doing the easy part - "Wouldn't it be cool if we had "X"?" Well sure, that'd be cool, but how do we provide it to players without them spoiling another player's experience? Anytime you allow players to interact with each other directly (like in a "physical" way) risks a loss of control on one party's part. And it's no fun for the one who lost control (Mind Control, stuns, blocking, etc.).

Some of the things you've suggested have already worked in multiplayer games - party games on consoles. Sure, players can grief each other that way, but at least with your rivals sitting right there, they're unable to hide behind the pseudo-anonymity that the internet provides.

Still, good food for thought.

Re: Things you cannot do in mmorpgs

I wrote about that.

I've underlined how you cannot grant "free powers" to the players and ruin the game.

My point is that the game design needs to set rules. This is why I said that they need to be "governed".

And the idea of the modular approach to the traps. You give some tools and variation on those tools so that there's a freedom, while these possibilities are still restricted to be in-context. An "exploit" is an action out of context. Griefing happens when there's a lack of rule-enforcing.

So it's all possible from my point of view. It just need to be introduced with restrictions.

Re: Things you cannot do in mmorpgs

You'd almost have to design a new game system that was seperate from the normal one when you're working from a basic game mechanic as "I can interact with another player in such a fashion that the targeted player does something the targeted player did not intend.", like pushing. Players would have to adapt to new controls and functionality, with or without a tutorial depending on the quality of the developer.

I think with MMOs, if you are going to design areas that operate under special rules (Battlegrounds), you can't ignore the ramifications of the base abilities of the player, the combat system and the game mechanics that are already there, and you can't exclude that from the new game environment unless you wanted to make the class roles disabled for an MMO (perhaps creating a loss of identity for the avatar if all abilities were reset or a new generic one was created specifically for the mini-games). You have to ask yourself questions like "I want to add this, but what about ability A. B. and C. that can affect balance." Example, let's assume you had your platforming game. You have the push function. Now let's say because this takes place in, say, WoW, Priests would have a distinct advantage in that they can Mind Control, Mages can Polymorph, etc. etc.

With a focus on content generation for the masses (This episodic content approach screams of "We can make 1/3 the content and release it instead of an entire product / story! Take that, narrative!"), new game systems within games seems best left to single-player mini-games within another game or games with a focus on a party atmosphere.

Now, an MMO with support for mini-games might be interesting, but the ones I've seen so far are pretty light on activities for when you are not engaged in those mini-games.

Re: Things you cannot do in mmorpgs

Actually i can tell you why Blizzard removed the function to stack Fireplaces.
There are 3 reasons:
1. being the obvious immersion break in having a tower of Fireplaces somewhere (duh).
2. The way the World was "made" in wow relies to a large extent on tricks. Back in the days you could run "up" over the edge of textures in mutliple places, and come to the backside of the mountain where nothing has a texture or anything like that, it looks rather ugly and also breaks the immersion.
3. The possible (PvP) exploits with LoS of Guard units are endless, they already have enough of those problems now, without allowing creative players even more ways to reach something like that

You cannot in mmorpgs things do

Simulation is a partial remedy but anywho... Last time I checked, the worlds greatest heroes didn't go jumping around on FIREplaces --them things be burning. Sense when did being a hero mean being invincible? Alexander the Greatly Charred.

Build a fireplace on a fireplace? Add something that checks for a fireplace in the area before the player is given the chance to make one. Help to foster a little community maybe who knows you might see scenarios like:
"Hi, mind if i cook my cabbob here?"
"Hell no this my fire!"
"Whateva you don't OWN this fire you-"

*SoAndSo has asked for a duel*
( accept | decline )

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