Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

Then a character modeler and a texture artist.

There's finally out there a short video that shows some of the game. With some new screenshots here.

At a first glance it even looks quite good (there's also a new fancy SOE logo at the beginning), but if you observe it with some attention the flaws start to show.

To begin with (and even somewhat acknowledged) the animations are *terrible*. Pretty much everything that moves looks awful. In particular the horses and the dragon.

And this is why I say the game needs a skilled animator. In the requirements put "must have NO experience with mmorpgs" and maybe you'll be able to hire someone who knows what he's doing.

Good animations are essential to have good controls on the character, show clearly what is happening (feedback), immersion and, in particular, to make the monsters feel more different and alive.

Take for example that giant that is shown for a couple of seconds. Why his mace doesn't hit the ground? Why it doesn't rise a cloud of dust, throwing away the players nearby? Why he draws back the weapon so quickly as if he was scared to actually hurt someone? Good animations should have a good flow. Swinging a weapon shouldn't look like hammering a nail. There should be some dynamism, some weight. You don't just move the arm to hit and then play the same animation backwards to move the arm back into its original position. A giant is supposed to be slow and heavy. Only a few attacks but meaningful ones. So it would make sense to have complete animations that take their time. Designing attacks and combat should be already imagining the way the monster moves and reacts.

Things look even worse when you go with a more realistic look and then have those kind of animations that are also cloned on all the characters. It completely disrupts the game. It feels too generic, amateurish and without personality.

The most improved thing seems to be the lighting system. On the grass it still looks odd like if it was photoshopped on the screenshots in a second moment, with colors too flourescent compared to the rest, but overall it should be decent. It helps to make the scenes feel more consistent and the characters less estranged from them.

I still continue to have mixed feeling when I look at those screenshots. I always have the impression of an amateurish game like those mmorpg studios that come out from time to time. Vanguard is one of those games to claim "cutting edge" technology but it still looks quite bad. I also wonder about the performance of the engine with that level of detail because if it looks like that, at least it has to move well. And not looking bad AND also having a terrible performance.

This is also another game who uses LOD heavily. Already in the video you can see objects popping up at a relatively close distance. At least let's hope that the buildings will be persistent on screen, instead of watching just hills and trees.

Again, I'm more worried about the technical execution and production value in this game, than the design. It just looks very amateurish, generic and approximate. Brad is still aiming at about 400k subs, even hoping for more after WoW seemed to open the market for everyone. What if the "core" players are instead around 60-80k? That's my prevision for the game at this time.

It would be a problem because it would cripple Brad's plans with the future development and they'd have to decide if it's enough to continue to support it, or just give up and getting reabsorbed into SOE, as in that scenario.

The point is that if Vanguard wants to seduce some of WoW's players, it will HAVE to pass through EQ2. This is why I'm so unconvinced about the decision to publish the game with SOE. The truth is that Vanguard is EQ2's most direct and serious competitor. They share the exact same market, and there are even some ironical analogies. Like the characters models and animations that suck in both games. And both look passable only on higher-end hardware because of "cutting edge" technology that looks bad and that has horrible performance.

From Smed's blog:

One of the things I like best about SOE’s overall development direction is that we’re creating a wide variety of new games. We have four diverse MMO titles in internal development, not counting the five MMOs we currently have live, or our partnership with Sigil for Vanguard.

Each of these new games is aimed at a very different market and all of them are in different genres. From our perspective, it’s time to shake things up a bit in the online gaming space.

In the case of Vanguard what he says just doesn't make sense because it will directly overlap with EQ2, and realistically only one of the two will survive (while I guess that the developer they acquired was from that show in China).

Right now EQ2 looks much more solid and I think it has the number to succeed over Vanguard even despite all its flaws. There's also a video about EQ2's next expansion. Blackguard says it's alpha footage, still in too early development to be intended to be shown (and where we discover that a "Fae" is just an elf with wings).

Imho it looks terrible. And when I say terrible I mean much worse than what is in the game right now. So I just hope it's just the video. The animations are worse than ever, the ground textures the usual, generic stereogram. Also quite blocky and unnatural in the way the terrain is shaped. EQ2 also needs a better, more natural-looking terrain editor. Add to the list.

I was also thinking while observing again God of War animations that the cloth he has on the hips moves wonderfully. EQ2 uses a laggy, ugly cloth animation system and I wonder again why you cannot just simulate the cloth animation, record it to the actual animations, and then have it directly in the game exactly as in GoW, without any fancy (and laggy) system.

The combat between the Fae and the rock thing has the sound completely desynched from the animations. The second combat between the two guys and the mechanical helicopter instead looks like a Power Ranger episode. Ugh.

So, really, Vanguard and EQ2 rival for who has the most ugly, jerky and confused animations. I cannot believe that with all the resouces SOE has, they still cannot find a first class animator and some good character modelers.

Btw, what happened to the Station Pass overhaul that was announced in a press release during this last E3?

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

We are still years away from seeing animations in MMOs on a quality level, wich exists in games like GoW, wich i believe uses a neat inverse kinematics system for all its animations. Good and realistic lookin (IK) cloth animation still is a huge hardware eater. Multiplied with the number of characters in a usual MMO game scene, kills any hardware existing right now. The client would need to transport so many data for animations alone, it is not realistic. So the approach to aim for realistic graphics on a level only traditional genres can create is wrong. Even if SOE buys the best animators available, it would not work. Animations and art in general are a penalty for this kind of genre. Blizzard is aware of it, SOE ignores it. The Unreal engine for Vanguard even supports IK-animations but they can not afford using it hardware wise. Makes you wonder how much sense it does, to license such a beast for a genre where this engine is misplaced obviously.

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

Good and realistic lookin (IK) cloth animation still is a huge hardware eater. Multiplied with the number of characters in a usual MMO game scene, kills any hardware existing right now.

In fact what's ugly about EQ2 is that even on high-end hardware you can only keep five models or so at full detail.

What I wrote about the cloth animation is like a comparison with what happened way back with the 3D engines. The levels were always precompiled. The same about the cloth animation. Why do you want to render the animation in real time when you can instead just simullate the movement on a dedicated editor/render, record the animation and then have it fixed in the game without any hardware overhead.

It would look better and it wouldn't cripple the framerate.

And in the case of EQ2 and Vaguard it's not the animation technology they use to make the game ugly (even if EQ2 makes the body parts twist HORRIBLY) but the animations themselves that are quite bad, bad synch, monster sliding on the terrain as they walk and so on for a quite long list of glitches and inconsistences.

Take for example the list of glitches I've compiled in a few minutes just by looking at the latest adventure pack they added:

- Characters twisting their head to look at you. This "emote" should be restricted to happen at 60 degree max, instead of 90 (or at least move even the torso to accomodate wider angles). Plus I'd build a system so that this "emote" isn't always on on every character and monster, but flagged and enabled manually when appropriate (in many cases it isn't). Plus also disable it while the character is busy with another action, add a delay so that the head doesn't twist back and forward quickly as it happens in a few cases and then also flag it to happen only in certain cases (or better, let the designers disable it under set circumstances).

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

I like your blog and read it daily. Sometimes I find you are a bit estoric in your writing. But, my biggest gripe by far is that you totally pick apart everything EQ2 does, yet Blizzard is "perfect" in your mind. The bias is too god damn prevelant... In notice this and I don't even play EQ2.

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

Oh, he does have a favorable opinion of Blizzard's core design of WoW, but when it comes to subject matters like PvP, he'll rip Blizzard a new one. :) Read back further in the logs and you'll see.

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

As most of the Vanguard community has known since April, Vanguard will use the EmotionFX animation system, which will be implemented in late Beta 3 or Beta 4. The animations in place now are merely placeholders – YOU EVEN LINKED TO A QUOTE FOR THIS!

The Echoes of Faydwer is still in early Alpha. Pretty much nothing except maps and character models is final at this point, as stated by Blackguard in the same thread that this was announced (just scroll down).

And yes, in response to the previous poster, your bias is quite evident.

Re: Vanguard needs a talented animator (and SOE in general)

My bias exists because I have opinions and don't shy away from them. If you think an opinion is "bias", then that's it.

The point is that I usually justify my "bias". In the sense that it is a logic conclusion than OMG, HYPE!

EQ2 has 1/10 of WoW's subscribers, from my point of view there IS a reason. This reason has a concrete motivation.

I write 90% of the times about game design. I tend to recognize good game design, and point at game design that looks bad to me.

For my opinion you can go read a comment that I wrote right at WoW's release, when its success, and in particular its scope, wasn't as obvious as it is now.

About Vanguard they are saying NOW that they'll do some work on the animations. About a year ago people still complained about the animations, then Brad said that they were all placeholders and that they were waiting a lot of motion capture to arrive and implement in the game. Those animations arrived and they still looked crap, now it seems that they are saying again that it's all placeholders.

Excuse me if I'm skeptical. If one day Vanguard will have beautiful animations then I'll surely recognize that.

Now the problem is that what looks bad in the game are the single animations, not the technology itself. So will the new technology really help? Maybe, but only if the single animations will improve greatly. And that can happen only if they hire talented animations, because you can buy all the technology you want, but you still need someone who knows how to use it.

And beside this there's also the quite consistent limit that was put in the design stage: all the human creatures share the same body and animations. So all the races will feel exactly the same.

That's a limit that no technology will solve.

So, take the fact that despite all the revisions the animations are still quite awful, add the design choice to clone the animations on all humanoid characters, and you can see why I'm skeptical that we'll see a significant leap forward.

I still think it's a big mistake to consider the graphical appearance of monsters and characters more important than how they move. And this is something particularly consolidated in the mmorpg industry.

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