"1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

Some more random thoughts that are linked to what I was writing here.

One of the limits of the combat in current games is that in almost all cases you are stuck into a boring "1 Vs 1". Take WoW and you can easily see as the combat is about finding a monster that is roughly around your level and kill it before moving to the next target. If you aggro more than one, you'll likely die.

The quests point you to the monsters that fit your level, and give a purpose to what you do. But you are still within that "1 Vs 1". And even when you are encouraged to group it happens when you are forced to aggro. So it isn't a "1 Vs 1" but a "2 Vs 2". The ratio is still the same.

There are cases where you are in a group and have to fight another group of monsters, but even in that case the gameplay teaches you to root or mezz the adds so that you fall into an unfair "many Vs 1".

I was noticing this because it's something quite limited to the mmorpg genre. Take every kind of hack & slash games and you are always with your character fighting against droves of enemies all at once. And it's more fun. I'm kind of bored of this "1 Vs 1" standard model used in mmorpgs and I started to think how it could be possible to change it. To arrive at a combat model that is more visceral, dynamic and fun to play both for the solo player and group dynamics.

The first problem is quite stupid. If a single player can kill droves of monsters at once then think about how many of them you would have to fit in Dun Morogh if there are 200 or more characters around waiting for them to spawn. It's an idea that would probably work better in instanced adventures, but at the same time it could bring to ways to break some bad habits. Like the advanced aggro routines: instead of pulling the goblin camp one by one, while those poor goblins stare their mates getting slaughtered, you would really have to deal with the whole camp, with some of them fleeing to give the alarm, some to attack you from range while another group charges at you. Instead of ONE pattern where you aggro the mob and the mob runs at you, the game would open up to whatever situation you can imagine and in a way that does not directly destroy the immersion. If you can see the monster then the monster will likely see you and react realistically, and not just obeying to its sad experience-dispenser role. Those monsters would fight for their lives, the best they can, instead of just running toward a sure death.

(err, to finish later again...)

Re: "1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

City of Heroes / Villians implemented this well.

Re: "1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

There is a some many vs 1 (many vs 5) action in wow. But it works only for one class, a mage. Others could do some many vs 1 fights rogue with his bloodrage, warrior tanking few and killing one by one. Its none comparing to hack'n'slash games, but still something. I'm afraid that hack'n'slash game can't be easy implemented, couse it will give major advantage for 'slash' classes. This will ruin class balance I think. And I wont be playing MMO with only melee combat style classes.

Re: "1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

I see this sort of thing happening in the future, I think yet again it's a technical hurde more than anything. Taking on the network connections and the incoming data is one challenge, but it's also handling the more realistic mechanics of swinging swords and the connectivity with a target feedback.

But we all know technology moves on and this sort of thing will eventually become available.

I wonder if some of the 'group mechanics' ideas could be applied here. Like you see in the total war series, the armies are handled as groups rather than individuals. It would be great to take your own army into battle with you in an mmo. Similiar to the Kingdom under fire: heroes idea. Tactical Control from an Individual Perspective

Making the pvp battles seem like battles rather than thuggish standoffs. It also means you could add training as an option. Progression would be based on ability to command and the overall experience of your army. I think that sort of thing lends itself naturally to a timesink without needing to reroll to get back to the fun part of the game. You could be in a massive battle lose all your army and then start preparing again.

Re: "1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

That sort of "npc army group" as part of your "character" would be an awesome thing. Turning a rts like "Rome total war" into a MMO (with some more added economy/crafting) would be a good step :)

Yes, yes, yes! I cannot

Yes, yes, yes! I cannot agree more. It bugs me to an incredible level how most mmorpg's are stuck in the 1 vs 1 model. It is silly, boring and what more, it breaks the heroic feeling. No matter how powerful you become, you are always at the level where "I am roughly the strength of a single monster". What a scary hero you are.

As mentioned above, COH breaks the mold nicely. Enemies react in groups and you are expected to be able to take on multiple goons. Conversely, you are not supposed ( for most classes ) to take on a 'Boss' one on one.. and thats the smart formulae. Variety in the composition of the fight.

To borrow a term from 3ed D&D, combat should be structured around "encounter levels". You should not evaluate the strength of a single monster and match it to a level, but evaluate an -encounter-.

Re: "1 Vs 1" and "1 Vs many"

You should not evaluate the strength of a single monster and match it to a level, but evaluate an -encounter-.

Or maybe remove levels altogether :)

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