Judging games in five minutes

I usually don't need more than 5-10 minutes to know if a game is going to be bad or good.

This may sound very, very pretentious, but it works for me. It's not something that I'm writing on a blog to impress, but it's valid in my case. I don't need more than 5-10 minutes to know if I'm going to like a game or not. You can ask me 10 hours later if I was right or not, I would probably have a lot more to say, more precise and reliable opinions and critics to make, but my general impression would be mostly unchanged.

Now the point is that I don't think this is odd. I don't think it's my own thing. I think instead this is the NORM.

The real point is that in the first few minutes you expose already a good 80% of the game. The real point is that what required a large group of devs and constant work for years WILL BE spoiled in those five minutes. The great majority of it. Scary but true.

In sport games this is rather evident. You can just launch a quick match and at the end of those five minutes you would have experienced already the majority of the game. Gameplay, flow, interface, controls, art, animations, responsiveness and so on. But the same is valid for every game type. God of War is a masterpiece from the very first minute. It doesn't take you more than 5 minutes to figure out it's a masterpiece. Actually five minutes are too much because right after the first three zombies and the first flourish you are already loving controls, animations, camera and the flawless fluidity of it all. Oblivion may be a different case, you need more than five minutes just because you need to get out of the starting dungeon. But as you are finally out, you still need no more than 5 minutes to have a very good idea of the game.

Usually when I launch a game the first thing I do is skip the movies (if I can), and go straight in the options. Looking at the options already tells you a whole lot about the game. Giving a look at the controls completes this. Then you start to play. Just the first impact, the very first few seconds and you have already the interface, controls, graphic, the engine. All these aspects require years of work, but once they are ready and refined they all happen at the same time. Right away.

Today I can already have a good idea of a game by looking at a screenshot. I can see already the type of engine, its power, the art style and quality, maybe the UI and maybe guess the gameplay. I can even see the quality of the animations. You cannot figure out the movement, but the postures can already tell you a lot.

This is why people wait for screenshots. In a second you expose the game. It's a very important test.

What Shild wrote about Vanguard and the "first impression" made me think. Because I don't think it's a problem of "creating an engaging experience from the first moment you log in". It's not a problem of presentation. The first five minutes aren't important because the experience may "bias" your opinion about the game, the point is that those initial five minutes are the PEAK OF FUN in the whole game. The whole impact with a new game is the best part. If the game fails to amaze you on the first impact, then it never will.

So my guess is that it's not a problem of "reaching the fun". Shild could force himself to play the game for another twenty hours before writing down his opinion. What I'm sure about is that if he didn't like the game right away, then his opinion just isn't going to change.

The original discovery, the first impact is what matters because what you see is already the majority of the game. The game can go on then for 10 hours, 20, 50 or 100 and more. But all those hours will be *variations* on what you see in those first five minutes. And aside exceptional cases you aren't going to like those millions of variations if you didn't like the original one.

I think this is valid for everyone. The most fun you get out of the new game is when you boot it for the first time and a whole new world opens to your eyes. The rest is a drift.

--
Specifically about Vanguard. Use this screenshot as an example.

I'm not pointing to the damage bug (lol!) but the world design. Imho Vanguard is about on the same level of DAoC when it was first released. One thing that always sucked in DAoC is world design. The art quality improved with the time, but the world design remained pretty much mediocre. I like a more realistic style, but Vanguard is ugly and empty. It lacks personality.

Brad publicizes the game focusing on the word "immersion". That's good because that's something absolutely fundamental. I would have the exact same founding principle if I was working on a game. Long clip range, seamless huge world. The problem is that the principle is badly executed.

The players continue to talk about in-game settings, ini config files, hardware. Instead I ask you to give a look to the screenshot I linked.

I don't know at what settings that screenshot was taken, but I doubt that the configuration or hardware can change the essence of what you can see there. The textures may get crisper, you may see further away, but the point is that the world is empty. Featureless. It completely lacks "world design". This isn't going to magically change by moving up a slider in the options. You can see far away and in some cases you have these huge, fancy buildings far away. Impressive skylines. But all this space is not filled with something worthwhile. It lacks consistence. It's just an envelope with nothing within. There are these huge spaces with featureless terrain and one texture patterned everywhere. These aren't places carefully handcrafted that are going to be interesting to visit and walk through. The scale of things is awesome, but the player's perspective SUCKS. Vanguard is supposed to be the explorator-type dream. But the world design is so lackluster that there's not much to see.

It's empty, unfinished, ugly.

Look at this particular screenshot from WoW. See the tank on the left and the trail it leaves behind on the whole image? This is an example of a detail that you don't easily notice from the player's perspective, but it suddenly becomes evident when you are flying on a gryphon. WoW is built exceptionally from this point of view (and WoW is an unquestionable masterpiece of world design, there's no competition), it's built to please both from the eagle-eye perspective, with these impressive, imposing environments and details that can be truly appreciated when you look at them from way back, as well from the ground level with a carefully crafted world in every tiniest detail.

You cannot tell me it's a matter of taste. If I didn't know something like this was coming from Vanguard then I would mistake it for one of those amateurish, immature mmorpg engines. Not a recent major release that is expected to be loved by hundreds of thousands of players.

And that's the EXACT opposite of immersion.

This is a quote from someone commenting NWN2 toolset:

Within days of starting to use the new toolset, I found myself actively noticing many more things about the natural world. How the reeds were growing only at the edges of a pond, but not in it. The way grass leading up to a heavily wooded area doesn't just stop, but transitions from heavy growth to sparse shoots to nothing at all. How dirt trails and roads aren't all one color, shape, or height. The way cobblestone in the 'historic' portion of the city was uneven and not of uniform color. The reason? For the first time, I had a toolset that was capable of reproducing these things.

THIS is immersion.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

" WoW is an unquestionable masterpiece of world design, there's no competition"

I disagree utterly. I find the WoW world to be claustrophobic, restrictive and cluttered with repetitive imagery. There are many, many gameworlds, whether open or closed, massively multiplayer or single player, top-down, isometric or 3D, that I greatly prefer.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

See this images

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00002big.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00027.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00026.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00025.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00022.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00015.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00009.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i224/stylee99/ScreenShot_00005.jpg

Please wen you see thous piks tell me wath you think

Regards

Re: Judging games in five minutes

More images.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Vendayn/Vanguard%20Screenshots/vgclient2007-01-3116-24-54-03.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Vendayn/Vanguard%20Screenshots/vgclient2007-01-3116-01-47-32.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Vendayn/Vanguard%20Screenshots/vgclient2007-01-3117-38-45-50.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Vendayn/Vanguard%20Screenshots/vgclient2007-01-3117-38-21-34.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/Vendayn/Vanguard%20Screenshots/vgclient2007-01-3116-21-35-90.jpg

Wen you finish guive me your toghts about that

Re: Judging games in five minutes

So what?

Those screenshots confirm what I wrote. It's as if Vanguard was built to be played from far away, not ALSO from the ground perspective.

And if you want to see an engine that doesn't look horrid when zoomed back, give a look to Black & White 2.

The art quality in Vanguard sucks. It's the first EQ with higher res textures, long clip range and shaders. It's lifeless and artificial.

Just because you stick big things in the air and have these very "high fantasy" elements (that I like, btw) doesn't mean that world design has quality.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

your ideas of "world design" are a bit strange... I can also show you dull images from world of warcraft, every game has them. And you seem to ignore some of the technical aspects required to make what you consider "good"... Wow sacrifices a lot of detail so it can have some of the features it does, and even though it might look good from medium range, they all look like crap when zoomed in, wich happens a lot inside claustrophobic dungeons (even though they look better in expansion).

What matters is if it is fun to play, and if the interactivity with the world looks half real, I mean, if they don't look forced, unreasonable or plain annoying.

Also, the most important part of a games like vanguard and wow is how fun to play they are. Wow sacrificed a lot of fun to be user friendly, a thing other RPG's don't, and while it may appeal from a starting point of view (or first 5 minutes) it becomes dull after 80 days played, so your assumption that you can say how good it is just by trying it out is horribly wrong.

Please note that I'm not defending Vanguard, I haven't tried it yet, but unlike you I happen to consider the screenshots and videos wandering around really good and certainly a game worth trying.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

You are so wrong about Vanguard it's not even funny. Vanguard's world design SCREAMS atmosphere and is the best I've ever seen and I've been playing games where "worlds" existed since the red and white nintendo (yes, there were RPGs with massive worlds on that console, one of my favourites depicted a classic chinese legend). Anyway, the atmosphere and feeling from travelling in Vanguard actually takes the boredom out of travelling as it exists on EverQuest, EverQuest 2 and World of Warcraft. Vanguard is a game where I could have fun just walking around. The screenshots you selected from Vanguard shows your bias. One is of a freaking farm, where humans have done something to the land to make it viable for crops, and it's been infested with ants. The entire screenshot is filled up with this plot of land. The other screenshot is taken on a sandy beach kind of site. Players actually travelling THROUGH the world of Vanguard instead of looking at biased screenshots knows that Vanguard's world feels like an actual world - with rivers, lakes, beaches, mountain passes, cliffs, dams and forts overlooking miles of forest. Climbing up the mountain to the dwarven stronghold of Bordinar's Cleft is a journey in itself, for instance. In comparison, the WoW screenshots looks like a 2d texture pasted on a plane.

And I've read your comments on EQ2 (I was looking for something related to EQ2 and that is why I found this place). You kind have to be blind not to be able to tell the difference between an active versus an inactive icon, or maybe your monitor settings are bad. I have my own complaints about the game, but your comments continually show bias and a lack of knowledge.

Have you actually worked with the NWN2 toolset? It's broken, very broken. As for that person, it is a good thing to notice the world around you, and certainly not a bad thing if a game tool caused him to have such a relevation, but the toolset is a radically different thing than the worlds that are created. Your attempt at comparing a world created in Vanguard to a tool for creating a world is illogical due to the nature of the two being different fails to illustrate your point properly. (That is like saying the Mona Lisa sucks because the paint they had couldn't produce the same effects as Photoshop filters and brushes, because Photoshop is "art.")

A toolset isn't immerson. It's a tool. Maybe I'll come back in a few years and see if your reasoning skills have developed more.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

Take a look at some nature photos sometime. Some are filled with life, others are barren. That is what a world is like. Not every speck of land/pixel needs to be filled with something to be "immersive." Some of the most beautiful photography is of very few elements. This obsession with "more" appears to be interfering with your ability to appreciate what is actually there.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

It's not a matter of "quantity". It's a matter of detail and realism.

Everyone can make a flat box with one green texture for the grass. Dropping onto it a number of trees and stones doesn't make it better.

It's quite obvious that I'm not criticizing the landscape type. I'm criticizing the execution of what they decided to render.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

your argument is kind of flawed, wow is full of cheap tricks that are just like those you described:

Flat grass.
un-natural tree.

Do you honestly belive that it is hard to make some nifty looking grass that moves back and forth spread all around the place? The thing about designing something as awesomely beautiful as that is making it run on the average computer... it just wont. So game designers need to use that kind of textures, not because they think it is better looking, but because, after adding everything up, it is necessary.

And just to prove my point, you can complain about Vanguard's art style, that you don't like it, that you're not drawn to it, but you can't complain about it's execution

Re: Judging games in five minutes

How would that screenshot from Vanguard say something about world design?

What I see is SpeedTree. SpeedTree is a vegetation render that Sigil bought for Vanguard.

Give me the money to buy SpeedTree and I could build a similar area with little effort and no world design sensibility.

You don't need to employ a world designer to make a passable looking area with SpeedTree.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

z0MFG SP33DTREE OMGOMGOMGOMG!

Vanguard is as much immersive as Oblivion is the new-age D&D...IT SUCKS. It's like that emo kid in class that slits his wrists for attention...damn posers.

Re: Judging games in five minutes

I think you can judge gameplay to a good extent in five minutes. It's not always a good predictor though, i.e. some games are awesome for an hour then rapidly decline. I found F.E.A.R was that way. After an hour it stopped surprising you too much. Other games are poor for ages and then become the real experience.

I'm not sure that you can judge world design from screenshots or five minutes though. Graphic's yes. Even then though usually the screens you see are taken from the game running at max (and in some cases edited) resolutions and settings.

That given, at this point Vanguard is already showing problems to me. I blame upper management for forcing release too early. It has potential, but why has SOE not learned.. POLISH POLISH POLISH. So far - two days and two patches, nevermind the two that I had to download before even getting chance to play. And a lot of the changes are for polish, e.g. :"The beginning of the Infineum quest line has seen significant alterations and polish"

This is the difference between first day WoW and first day everything else. Immediately you enjoy WoW, everything else you fiddle with for ages till you 'find the fun.'

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