The LotR Online short-living bubble

I'm biased against Turbine, so read keep that in mind.

Months ago I was guessing possible subscribers numbers for the next Turbine's game based on the Middle Earth and I said that I was expecting around 200k. More recently I noticed that the interest in the community was rising, in particular not in a specific niche, but in a more transversal way, so I thought that they could be more successful than I expected. 300-400k maybe.

I posted a quote from EQ2's Scott Hartsman that is interesting to see in the context of this upcoming game. He says that the constant rise in subscriptions is a privilege of "the king of the hill", while all other "players" live with the same rules upside-down: retention demands revolution, while for the king of the hill growth demands stability. This is not only true, but also particular enlightening, even if apparently so simple, because it explains so much.

I was finding something in common between these two points above. I said that I'm noticing an unexpected enthusiasm toward LotRO, but the real point is that when you dig in the enthusiasm you find out that is not just unexpected, but also unexcused. The enthusiasm isn't backed up by actual solid points that justify the interest. You can call it classic beta hype.

WoW created expectations in the market, in the last few years since its release the market wasn't really providing interesting alternatives, so the demand for "new" grew. People like to anticipate stuff and a big mammoth like WoW, while still top-quality, failed to renew that part of interest that is only awaken when you offer new perspectives. The Burning Crusade expansion is overall very well executed, but it delivers more in a kind of horizontal growth. Surely it doesn't go to explore new frontiers, the game is enclosed in its boundaries and rules. It's still an excellent experience, but you know what to expect.

LotRO falls in this particular "momentum" and it becomes a double-edged blade. From a side the game is "familiar", and this is positive. People appreciate familiarity. I remember a post from Vanguard's UI designer ,who joined late in development, who justified WoW's UI ripoff because she said it is important that you carry over and respect some expectations, some standards. When the mass market is reached (through WoW) it's convenient that you don't impose a whole new language but instead integrate it. Instead of re-training players, you continue on the same path. You try to deliver on the specific genre, following its rules. Players come with expectations, directly compare features between games even when the comparison makes little sense, they impose their own needs and habits. If you want to be considered by an already formed audience you need to talk them in their language.

From the other side that approach becomes negative: the "sameness". The feeling of "already seen". This isn't a problem of the first approach, I wrote not long ago how the first ten minutes are the very best experience in every game. During those ten minutes everything is a discovery, the brand new look. Even if it's a familiar game it still appears very shiny. Things change with the time. The "familiar but shiny" loses its glint, the drug tends to fade and you look at things more consciously, you ask yourself what is deserving your attention and dedication.

I said that the enthusiasm I'm noticing about this game is both unexpected and unexcused. Unexcused because when you scratch below the surface you don't find worthwhile concrete points. The most interesting feature I've read about is the "title-driven carrot", depending on some actions and triggers you may unblock special titles, and there are a whole lot of them. Well, it's nice, but this is what I call a "gimmick". It's not really part of the game fabric, it doesn't affect the game rules and the final point is that, while nice, you surely won't decide to play this game because "it has titles". It is actually the perfect example of feature that gets your interest right away, part of the exploration and first impact. But three/six months into the game, do you think you'll still be excited about these titles? It's all presentation. Good presentation puts you in a good mood and it is very important, but you won't stay because of it.

Is that where all the enthusiasm is coming from? There's the "same girlfriend with a new dress" that I explained, and then there's Tolkien. From what I'm reading Tolkien is really the whole point, what gives that particular flavor that people are liking. So it doesn't matter if the actual art direction is just "passable", it's still Tolkien and (it seems) feels enough like Tolkien to trigger that special flavor.

And we arrive at the last point. For perspective I remind that Codemaster (euro publisher) is expecting 1M subs JUST for the european market. Then read again the quote from Scott Hartsman, is LotRO going to be enough King of the Hill to see a progressive growth in subscribers along the months? Let's say it will be successful, do you think that WoW is going to lose from 500 to 1M subs because of LotRO (beacause for sure it won't tap a new market with just a license)? My idea is that there's a period when players keep their former account and also go try another game. LotRO may pulg there. I expect a good numbers of WoW players to try this new game and even like it. Either they are bored of WoW and so canceled their accounts, or they are still subscribed. In the first case I seriously doubt that LotRO will be interesting for them in the longer-term. In the second case I expect players to keep accounts active on both games and this usually lasts for a while but sooner or later they'll decide one or the other.

I expect LotRO to be a short-lived bubble even on the forums. I don't see the game having some serious draw that is not that special glint derived from the "newness" and "being Tolkien". MEO will draw a lot of attention, it could initiate an interesting process of "mass-market", but I also believe that it will be a comet. Big burst and then very quick fade.

My prediction is that the game, while starting quite well, will enter "subscription retention mode" very soon. Like two months after release.

It's known that gamers have ADD. Especially those who go after the "shiny".

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

Nicely written, sir!

This explains your ambivalence towards the title very well, and definitely gets across the point you're trying to make. I've found your discussion of Mr. Hartsman's commentary interesting as well, and I think your point about the length of time between launch and the retention period is well seen.

I think the only thing that might muddy the waters here is price. Pre-ordering players (and who knows how many of those there are) may have either unlimited access (like Tobold, I think) or will be paying very little on a per-month basis for the game thanks to the lower monthly sub fee (like me). At the price of 'free' or 'ten bucks a month' (which for some people - not me - but for some people is equivalent to free), I think there might be a lot of people that stick around in LOTRO longer than they would have because it's easy.

Even at ten bucks a month I wonder how long a gamer could pay both WoW and LOTRO fees - $25 a month for your Massive fees is more than I'd like to do.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

One thing I have seen repeatedly in the online games market is what I can only describe as "hype-induced demand tension". The market grows overall at a pretty steady rate, roughly 60% annually, but the actual tracking shows a repeated sine wave overlaid on the growth. New game is coming out and generating a lot of buzz, this suppresses growth across the entire market for 6 to 9 months, then all that growth catches up in a burst upon the release of that game.

If the pattern holds true, LOTR is heading for 1.5-2M subscribers. 3M at the outside. Tabula Rasa does not have the same kind of momentum going for it, for a variety of reasons I believe TR is a "Second Game", the kind of thing people move to when Boiler Plate Fantasy Diku pales, and it's looking at a high side of 800K at most (more likely 400-500K). That's based strictly on market dynamics for both.

--Dave

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

One thing I have seen repeatedly in the online games market is what I can only describe as "hype-induced demand tension". The market grows overall at a pretty steady rate, roughly 60% annually, but the actual tracking shows a repeated sine wave overlaid on the growth. New game is coming out and generating a lot of buzz, this suppresses growth across the entire market for 6 to 9 months, then all that growth catches up in a burst upon the release of that game.

I call this differently, I call this product-driven market ;)

I've been always skeptical about your theory that the market constantly grows. Instead I believe that the products create, grow and even shrink the market. So there's an excellent product and the market grows incredibly, there's nothing and the market remains essentially the same.

When I guess subs numbers I usually intend EU+US. Right now WoW sits at about 3.5M. Do you really believe that LotR is getting even half of that? And when? It took WoW a LONG time and CONSTANT hype and focused interest in the community to reach that peak.

I also usually say that we still didn't move from 400k = HUGE success. The market didn't or barely grew. WoW is the exception. Not one piece of the market, but ITS OWN market.

See here:

What I'm saying is: the market may be slightly bigger due to exposition, but it's not as big as people say to justify all this enthusiasm and all sort of stupid start ups. It's a growth, but it's a growth completely compensated and even overwhelmed by the stronger competition and (relatively) higher standards and expectations.

Making a MMO today isn't simpler than how it was five years ago. Arguably, it's HARDER, more risky and likely to fail.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I've seen preorder numbers from one U.S. retailer for LOTRO from a week ago. Codemasters and Dave are on the right track.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I don't know about the enthusiasm being inexcusable. While I'm enjoying the game tremendously, I haven't really broken down the concrete points as to why I like it. I can point out the things I do like, but that's just all personal preference stuff. But I'd hope that my enthusiasm for it is excusable and that I don't have ADD :)

But, as far as beta enthusiasm goes, I have to wonder if maybe some of it has gotten a bit hyped up because it's coming right after beta experience in Vanguard. Going right from one game to the other and experiencing little to no lag or bugs has contributed to hype. And also offering lifetime $10 per month pre-order rates, shortly after SoE increased its Station Access rates I bet had some effect too.

I'm not sure it will affect WoW subs much at all. I'm on a server that has a lot of players over the age of 40. Those I met who played WoW left it a long time ago already. I've met several from EQ2 and DAOC. I've seen a guild called "SWG Refugees", so I can guess where they came from.

Is there enough there to keep me beyond six months or so? That I don't know. Only two games have keep me beyond six months--EQ and DAOC. We'll just have to see what Turbine adds in the future and how quickly they do it.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I wrote this morning that I don't think you have to compete with, or tear users away from, World of Warcraft. I also think that just because WoW is the current heavyweight juggernaut, it doesn't mean that it's the standard by which success should be measured.

While LotRO isn't really revolutionary in any way (it's still a "kill 10 rats and bats game"), it's a very different game than WoW. I've played WoW, and I think I "get" the experience that Blizzard wants to sell to its players. It's obviously a successful experience, but it's also very different from the LotRO experience. Your typical WoW player would probably hate it, or at least be disinterested. So if Turbine are planning on luring WoW players away (and I don't believe this for a second), they're in for a pretty rude awakening. They're more likely to pull from the EQ/EQ2/Vanguard population, which is pretty slim pickings.

I like LotRO, so perhaps I'm biased. But I'm optimistic that yet another untapped corner of the MMO market will emerge at launch. Blizzard will keep it's 8 kajillion players, but LotRO will probably command and hold a respectable million or more.

Good writeup though. :)

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

What do you see the differences being between WoW and LotRO? I played trials to level 10 for both and as far as I can see they're identical, down to the UI, escept for the deeds and titles system in LotRO.

LotRO seems slightly better even, as the world seemed a bit more consistent.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I guess the most obvious difference is stylistic. Whereas the artwork in WoW is highly stylized and "cartoonish," LoTRO takes a more realistic approach. WoW uses a lot of pastels and bold colors, whereas LotRO tends to use a more subdued pallet.

In terms of gameplay, LotRO offers a more concentrated player experience. There are fewer races and classes to pick from, and this can be a good, bad, or indifferent thing depending on what you're looking for in a game. I'm not sure how *deep* the classes go yet, but LotRO doesn't have the breadth that WoW has. In terms of class choice, LotRO is constrained by Tolkien's very limited use of outright magic. So there's really only one caster type class in LotRO, and it's probably the single biggest (but necessary) departure from the lore in the game. WoW, on the other hand, has a ton of magic using classes.

Then there's tone. WoW is a game that doesn't take itself seriously. There are pop references scattered throughout the game, silly dance emotes, NPC dialogue peppered with humor, and lots of in-jokes such as the "snakes on a plane" encounter. LoTRO, on the other hand, is a more somber game that (necessarily) takes itself more seriously. The NPC and quest dialogues are designed to impart a feeling of an ancient and deep world constrained by its thousands of years of history. (and keep in mind I'm not trying to sell anyone on either game, I'm just answering the question. :) )

For PvP, LotRO doesn't have it. You can play as a monster against other players, but there is no WoW- or DAoC-style PvP to be had.

And finally there's the player base. LotRO is still in open beta, so it could change I suppose, but my experience in general has been that the player base in LotRO is a more mature, tolerant, and cooperative player base than can be found in WoW. I think people tend to be attracted to LotRO because they want to steep themselves in Tolkein's world, whereas people tend to be attracted to WoW because it's a very well-rounded MMO that caters to multiple play styles.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

Thanks, I see (and agree with) what you mean. I'm looking forward to finding out how well the PvP monster idea works, as it seems to be the biggest design difference and so the most obvious thing the game can bring to the genre.

I see it as full PvP the same as any other game as the monster is a character just like any other, and it even has capture and hold mechanics. The destiny points are a nice idea to give PvP meaning in the main game without becomming pointless or unbalancing.

It remains to be seen how well it works of course, as no one is high enough level to play as anything but a monster.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I keep meaning to try out the monster play, but somehow I always get sidetracked. So I really don't have any practical experience in that regard. My initial feeling is that players won't really be as attached to their monster persona as their normal persona, and so the PvP won't be as satisfying to those who are looking for a typical PvP experience. For example, in WoW PvP is often a guild endeavor. It's Guild A vs Guild B battling it out for the bragging rights. There doesn't seem to be that kind of cohesion in LotRO's system. I'm willing to be wrong though.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

Nicely written, i am indeed one of those people who stopped my WoW sub to try this game. And have since decided in the "early access" phase that it is worth my time and money.

I bought the collectors edition of the Burning Crusade for WoW, and was disapointed... no new gameplay ideas, tweaks... it felt the same old. really the same old. The only reason i played it to 70 was the new stuff which grew stale, even with my netherwhelp or lurky the murloc following me around i became bored.

Having played LOTRO and got a Guardian class to 17 it was fun, the crafting is enjoyable.. exploring is fantastic fun, i've completly forgotten how many times i've gotten lost in the "old forrest" in bree. The quests are extensive with lore, the plot is story driven complete with CGI scenes in the "one ring" with a voice over.

There is so much different and unlike blizzard, turbine view housing etc as a priority.

WoW is beginning to die, unless new angles can be reached; a good thing about LOTRO is the music implmentation... grab a lute and play away, in the beta someone played "sweet child of mine" from his lute.

This little thing showed much more to an MMO than questing and gaining levels, people want to be entertained, have fun.. be social, do things sometimes that don't require a "grind" or running around. Blizzard forgot this a long time ago, and because of that WoW will eventually fade, perhaps to be replaced by a star craft MMO.

Above all in LOTRO don't expect to meet blue spacemen and insects ripped from starship troopers. Expect fantastic and completely different starting areas, and lots of good fun.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

Insightful comments, as always. I myself have been looking for a game to "fill the void" since quitting WoW a few weeks back after playing 2+ years. LotR had been getting some pretty positive word of mouth at the forums I visit, so I checked out the free beta and played about 5, 6 hours or so on two different characters. I really fail to see the appeal of this game and the relatively high interest in it by others is mystifying. The game seems competent and functional ... which should be a given but as we know with MMOs it isn't. But beyond that it fails to capture my imagination or interest. I have enjoyed LotR since I was young, but really it was all about the narrative ... the world itself apart from the story really holds no interest for me. The look of the game is only slightly less generic than what EQ2 or Vanguard offers, and it plays like a stripped down, smaller WoW. But, folks are thirsting for something new that at least delivers a playable experience ... though I can't help but think that after other games like Warhammer, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Conan, etc. come out later this year that LotR's playerbase will shrink considerably.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

I don't think what you describe has ever happened in an MMO, it will be interesting to see. Personally I don't think so. I predict a typical MMO lifecycle, if anything slightly longer then generations before it. WoW is the first MMO to really stretch out the growth period as long as it has. Almost all other MMOs have stablized or started to shrink at the 2 year mark.

On top of it, LotR is a flat out a quality product. Why will people struggle with low quality releases like Vanguard when you can play something polished like LotRs? Add that to the fact that there has not been a quality MMO release in YEARS and in IMHO, your prediction of a "short lived enthusiasm" is off base. It also hinges on what happens with some of the newer releases. Of the "new wave" of MMOs on the way, history has shown again and again the majority of them will perform poorly, especially if they launch unfinished as MMOs are prone to do. I also feel that fantasy based MMOs have pretty much run their course.

But we will see...wanna make a bet :)

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

The biggest fault of LOTRO is that it doesn't truly feel like the lord of the rings. It completely lacks the depth of good and evil that Tolkien presented. Sure, the cities and locations are largely pulled from Tolkien, but 99.9% of the quests have no relevance to the lord of the rings. For example, there's a loading screen ad for the next expansion. It mentions the new quest line of going with aragorn to the northwestern area of middle earth to search for a jewel Gandalf needs for his sword to be reforged. Remember that in the Lord of the Rings? Neither do I, but that's about as close to the actual plots of Tolkien that you get.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

And here we are, nearly a year later, and the game remains, 500k subs. :]

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

500k subs

In your dreams, maybe.

Re: The LotR Online short-living bubble

That was highly amusing..
First the poster signs as stranger..so do not even leave a site or email addy...lol...the write and run attitude
Second, all the various scrips tracking sites have the game listed at 200-300k...
So, this has made my day...quite the hoot

Thanks

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