No dancing with dragons this year

Or at least it's what I deduce from Martin's last blog post:

Well, I've made it across the ocean safe and sound. Typing this from an internet cafe.

No, I didn't finish the novel, though not for want of trying. Nothing to be done about that but push on when I return.

Considering that (I think) he won't be back till August, and that he still has work to do on it, a late 2008 release is basically impossible. Usually there's a full year between the finished novel and the published book, for major releases like this one the gap is reduced to something like six months.

With the book probably finished in September I think the release will likely be pushed to spring 2009.

I wonder why Martin doesn't try to look at what he's doing with a detached eye and change his plans. The decision to split book 4 in two is where the original mistake was. Instead of surrendering to an endless drift he should have kept the plot tight, cut the meaningless parts and make a more lucid plan about where he wanted to go.

Scott Bakker commented this from a similar point of view:

I know when I started working on The Judging Eye, I found myself inventing a whole series of new viewpoint characters. I didn’t realize what I was doing until I started reading A Feast for Crows, at which point I scrubbed them all save one. I told myself I was adding these new viewpoint characters for the reader’s sake, when in actual fact I was doing it for my own - I mean, multiply the time you’ve spent with The Prince of Nothing by a thousand, and you’ll have a rough ballpark sense of how much time I’ve spent with my cast. The urge to "freshen things up" is almost irresistible, as is the attendant assumption that you’re doing it as much for your readers as for yourself. But when you already have a complicated narrative on the go, you really do risk drifting across that fateful line where your story starts to decohere. Whether or not this was what happened with Martin’s last book, I’m not sure - all I know is that it threw what I was doing into perspective, and led me to take an entirely different tack. It took me a while, but I eventually fell back in love with the old fogies.

In the end I think it marks another difference between Martin and Erikson. Erikson knew exactly from the beginning where the story would end, and the theme of all the ten books. Then it's a matter of self-discipline and learning.

Martin instead has surely other many vantage points over Erikson, but he lacks the same lucidity and now he doesn't seem honest (to himself) enough to look at the whole thing and make choices. The problem isn't about finishing the single page, it's about deciding what to do with the whole series, where to lead it. He could decide for example to end it with the sixth book, so that the next is the last, as one last effort to give a closure to the plot.

In fact I would be more eager to read an overall consideration, than updates whether he finished one chapter or another. He doesn't need to keep working in the hope to finish a novel that doesn't seem to come out. He need to stop, sit back and think about it. Where do you want to go? How?

Martin and Erikson are like reversed patterns. Where Erikson became stronger in the longer term, demonstrating his tight control and talent, Martin instead got carried away, was overambitious and now trapped himself in a corner.

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

Really, you make quite a few assumptions there that are just untrue. The only thing Martin seems to miss is work ethics. Not planing, ideas, good intentions or grasp of reality. He's a perfectionist. The proof of that was the way book 4 was split - he decided to rewrite everything other than just split it by the middle - what most editors do (in my country all books are split, for example). That was the wrong decision. By wanting to get it "perfect" he did 1 (and I hope 2) great but not as good books as the others were.

The history was, indeed, planned for 6 books that became 7 due to this, so ending it on the next book would be, in my opinion, a mistake. Lets just hope that after this hurdle is done with (these two books were the ones that took the longest, the others were published within a reasonable timeframe).

I can see you're an erikson fan, and that more often than not is mutually exclusive to be a rr martin fan - but you should at least look to inform yourself about what really happened, instead of just criticizing one man - not without reason - but using all the wrong arguments.

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

(...)Lets just hope that after this hurdle is done with (these two books were the ones that took the longest, the others were published within a reasonable timeframe) he picks up his pace and finishes the story within the standard that he accustomed us to.

Sorry for the edit, forgot to finish a sentence.

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

I don't think he's using the wrong arguments tho - the very base of the issue is that Martin is an obsessive perfectionist, which (seemingly) led to him losing focus. There's nothing wrong with the wish to make the book as good as possible, but if he can't see that this whole obsession with rewriting chapters again and again didn't really lead to a better book, being a perfectionist isn't really a good thing.

Ideas and good intentions aren't questioned, but planning (sorry, if it takes Martin x years to rewrite a story he already had laid out, you just can't argue that has nothing to do with planning) and, yes, maybe "grasp of reality" are. Or not so much grasp of reality but the ability to look at your work from a certain critical distance. Martin seems to be caught up in the minutae and details and he just can't seem to stop adding new stuff and rewriting old one. And I'm worried this will lead to a further reduced reading experience (book 4.1 was already slightly "worse" than his previous books) which would be an absolute pity because I love the series and I want it to get a proper ending that won't take another 10+ years to be released.

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

Lack of focus. The main reason I read on blogs and forums is that the last book drifts too much and has a much less tight plot.

I think that quote I've taken from Bakker explains perfectly the problem. Now even if "Dance" is great he'll have a split between the bad book and the good book. There's nothing good with that. He failed as a writer to have a control over the plot and characters.

So the idea to finish the whole thing in another book is a way to force the story to run to a conclusion.

And, yeah, I doubt that after "Dance" is out some kind of miracle happens and he goes back to writing a book a year. In fact I fear that he'll be happy to have finished it and relax for a long while. And book 6 will came out even later if at all.

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

On the other hand, GRRM was in portugal today (1st of july) and he said to the audience he plans to finish the book till the end of the year now (so 6 more months of writing).

Also, GRRM was never a "1 book / year" guy, he was more of a "1 book every 2 years".

Also, I specifically asked him about the "watering down" and he answered in the lines of "What seems watered down is that you have a canvas where only half the colors are yet painted, so obviously it falls short". And "This two books is as far as the cast will expand, from now one the plan is to bring them down till the ending".

Also, about the 6 books (that became 7), they are supposed to be 2 books for the Lannister - Stark feud (not exactly, but more or less) 2 for the Dany and her Dragons and 2 more of the Others and everything involving the Wall and north of it. That's his plan, and I think he'll be able to stick with it and catch up once he delivers dance with dragons.

Also, about the criticism for "A Feast for Crows"... I don't agree with most of it. It's not as good as Storm of Swords, but it's still a great book by nowadays standards, and if it was any other author's (well, maybe not Jordan or Erikson or the likes of that) sequel it'd be seen as a masterpiece. Achieving, pretty much, perfection in your third book can drop some kind of a shadow on the following ones. But don't believe whoever tells you that they are bad. :)

Re: No dancing with dragons this year

I don't see how you can claim that Erikson is focused, while Martin is not... The Icarium and Mappo storyline has not gone anywhere, as far as Bonehunters. Also, the quality of Erikson's writing varies from awful to pretty good. He needs to take the time to perfect and polish his books before releasing. If the plot is focused and concise, I don't see it because it's buried in amateurish writing and poor characterization. Who can tell one Erikson soldier character from another? I had plastic army men with more character than Erikson's soldiers.

I'll take Martin's perfectionism over Erikson any day.

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