Casual players are slackers

A comment on Tobold's blog about the higher and higher requirements to be able to join a group:

It really is about the risk on the time invested. In the second week of January, or so, it seems the majority caught up with the achievers, and all of a sudden there was a severe drop in the competency and preparedness of the average PuG'er. I started leaving a lot of heroic groups five minutes in when I'd end up doing over 40% of the damage or our "tank" had 18k health. The situation has degraded with PuG raids. I've seen a Naxx10 fail because six of the DPS were doing less than 1500dps.

To me, it's an issue of respect. I invested time and effort into ensuring that I am competent and well-equipped enough not to hinder the success of the run. I expect the same in return from other players. DPS should significantly outperform tanks in their role. Tanks should have at least 5k more health than I do and be able to hold AoE threat. Healers in heroics should have enough spellpower to spare a heal on someone other than the tank, and enough awareness to see when they're needed.

Slackers who seem to think attendance qualifies entitlement show disrespect, and are undeserving of my time and effort.

I am disgusted.

Not at the reaction of this player (sample of a general trend) but of the fact that a massive game encourages and promotes this type of interaction.

It's also counterproductive, as the more requirements rise higher, the harder for new people to reach that level. A social fracture.

Re: Casual players are slackers

Well imo, it's not only that. It also the fact that the content is becoming easier and easier. So "elitist" people. Have to make themselves feel well "elitist". As there is no "hard" content anymore for "epic" gear so they can be "elitist".

So when grouping gear, DPS, spellpower etc. Becomes the hitch pin. Even when it is completely unnecessary. People often want you to be heavily over geared for an instance before even letting you come. It's rather dumb really. As it's just another way for people to try to exclude others when it's unnecessarily.

That's my two cents anyhow.

Re: Casual players are slackers

The worst part about this is the guy who's trying to be elitist is running pugs, which makes a whole other group of players in raiding guilds look down on HIM in disgust.

I think this is an interesting time though, because a whole new generation of players are just ending their honeymoon phase and more than ever before seem to be realizing how ultimately unsatisfying the level/gear treadmills are.

Now that our potential audience is so much larger, I hope in the next 5 or 10 years somebody will be able to gather enough expatriots into a profitable niche game that doesn't use gear as a trope for skill.

Mike Darga

Re: Casual players are slackers

The quoted does have a point though, and I don't think it's indicative of the game mechanic's encouragement. There's a difference between competency and gear. I'll agree that there needs to be a bit more disclosure on how much gear is required to do an instance. Gear's really only another form of level. They'll tell you the level they expect, but not the gear.

But there's also the competency side of things. I've seen people who were in expected or better gear who didn't know how Bliz thought they should play their class, and didn't care. DPS who thought that pressing a single button once every 8 seconds was enough. Healers who thought that if someone other than the tank took damage, it was their own fault. Tanks who think that if it's not their single target it needs to be cc'd.

There's people out there who want the instances to be as unchallenging as leveling. They're there for story, or cause it's pretty. They could care less about making it harder. Some people are looking for Nax/Kara hard, but don't want sunwell hard. Then there's people who want classic Nax hard. Game design needs to have levels of challenge. The social fracture is already there, the problem is the game is allowing those fractures to mix.

Re: Casual players are slackers

Gear is a way to discount skill.

In most case the gear you need (and that people consider "required") is the same gear you only get by doing the thing. There aren't pre-requirements, just recursive ones.

The difference isn't between those who "work hard" and those who get "free rides". The difference is between those who have guilds backing them up and those who can't, and so are left out.

Re: Casual players are slackers

Gear is also a way to prove you've got experience. Nax (as an example) is setup with a certain gear level in mind. You're not supposed to ding 80 and be ready for Nax. Your expected to run a few heroics. Those heroics have mechanics that will challenge you to be better, thus improving your chance to survive the harder challenge of Nax. It's not wrong for people to expect you to have a certain level of gear.

If Bliz had a way to make it easy to estimate the gear a person has, and posted expected gear level for a given instance, people wouldn't have such unrealistic expectations. I've run with several groups who've been "burned" by a undergeared healer, or inexperienced dps/tank. I don't blame the players much, cause they didn't know they couldn't run Nax. They keep hearing how "easy" is it, so they figure why not try it. I remember when I thought it was ok to raid in lvl 54 greens.

I also don't believe that a majority of people expect you to have Nax epics to run Nax. Sure you'll see some noisy people asking for geared people for a badge run. They don't want to have to teach people the mechanics. They want to chain pull. They want to clear in under 3 hours. You can't really expect to do that with random people in subpar blue heroic gear who don't have vent.

Gear proves experience, and it also buys insurance against poor teamwork, communication, and skill. Realistic requirements posted by Bliz would go along way is smoothing out the issues of running with PUGs.

Re: Casual players are slackers

Gear proves experience, and it also buys insurance against poor teamwork, communication, and skill.

I have to completely disagree on this part. I can not count the number of times I have seen people in amazing gear suck horribly.

Maybe it's because I played EVE for a few years. But I would really like to see blizz hold peoples hands less, not more. Make them figure stuff out themselves, make them work for it, if they really want it. Don't give everyone a number to go by. It would only makes things worse in my opinion. As then instead of people just going by DPS. Which is so dumb in the first place. As everyone knows, every class only does DPS they never bring anything like buffs or CC....

There is only one way to learn. First time I ever ran Naxx it was a in a pug that demanded everyone know every encounter and do so much DPS ect. Well, I lied. I had never been there and I didn't do as much DPS as they wanted. But I had a lot of fun, and learned quite a bit.

Reminded me a little of when I used to play, back when MC was opened, there where no strats, or hand holding addons. (lots of bugs though) You had to figure it out yourself. Sure it took a long time, but it really felt like an accomplishment...

I think I am just kinda rambling anyhow...time for bed.

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