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More guild consistency in EQ2

Submitted by Abalieno on January 22, 2005 - 09:08.

I just snagged this bit from EQ2:

Just as player characters have levels that reflect their achievements within the game, so do guilds. Guild members earn experience toward their guild's level primarily through the completion of special city tasks. Unique rewards and items become available at reduced prices as the guild advances in level and its members gain prestige and status within the city.

I'm sure SOE doesn't like the insane (and deserved) success that World of Warcraft is getting and I believe now they'll battle back with all the resources they have.

I underline these lines I reported here because one aspect that in WoW is completely missing is the guild relevance inside the game. In WoW a guild is nothing more than a tabard (that is also graphically horrid and badly animated) and a shared chat channel. There's nothing else you can consider in the guild, it's a system emptied of any use or relevance. An afterthought to have just because it's strongly part of the genre.

This is something that EQ2 can consider and develop because it's a definite advantage that may deliver a more involving gameplay instead of just transforming these guilds into egoistical tools you can use for solo play purposes (in WoW guilds are publicized with "free loot" offerings).

I won't delve more than this here but the guild system is one of those aspects of a mmorpg that is still completely underdeveloped. It's again my opinion going against Raph's idea. I believe that communal gameplay where more players band up to achive a real communal goal can offer a more involving type of fun that till now we've never seen in this genre and even outside of it. It's one of the main strengths that still need to be discovered and expanded.

And what I write here directly connects with what has been discussed on Ubiq's blog. A way to compete with WoW is exactly by making your unique traits and qualities stronger. Instead of trying to desperately catch up with something you'll never reach.

Filed in: The Cesspit | EverQuest(s)

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And a little more

Jeff Freeman (not verified) on January 24, 2005 - 20:18.

In WoW a guild is nothing more than a tabard (that is also graphically horrid and badly animated) and a shared chat channel.

It's a *little* more than that.

On the one hand, I almost never join guilds in MMOs because they have an expectation that you actually do things with them, and I don't want to.

In WoW, I joined a guild anyway. For the chat channel, you understand.

Now, we collect all these bits and pieces of things that we have no use for. We could just yell "Anyone want this?" - but that's not nearly as satisfying as asking in the guild channel "Anyone want this?" and learning a name, which we see again and again, and sending those bits and pieces of whatever the thing is to them.

It is an opportunity to be altruistic (which you can't so much do via general chat, due to the risk of Being Taken Advantage Of).

Then too, there are gifts which come from guildchat to you. When your guildmates find something they can't use but which you can, and they are afforded with the opportunity to be altruistic and you are the benefactor of said altruism.

And once, the last stage of a quest was just impossible to do, and spamming general chat for help doing it was fruitless, and the high-level guildmates came to the rescue to do it.

There is a risk in adding 'communal goals' that the noncommital nature of the guild (which is the only thing that got us to join in the first place) would get stomped upon, in which case we wouldn't have joined the guild.

Then we lose the occassional prize that emerges from guildchat, the opportunity to be altruistic in guildchat, help when general chat is ignoring us, and most imporantly, the chat.

I do agree there ought to be communal goals, but I'm not so sure they should be attached to guilds.

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Well

Innsmouth on January 26, 2005 - 01:49.

Unfortunately my guild is becoming more like a "beg channel" where peoples ask for money because of the mounts problem (I got mine two days ago at level 44 and I was sparing since 36).

My "being altruistic" is about organizing, joining or helping to do the instances, including the steps I already accomplished. I wrote my own guide to track down all those quests and I'm really spending all my time going through those. I also actually like being helpful and stick with the party once a random quest is finished.

I have zero loot. If I have a blue item I won't use I ask in guild chat and then it goes right to thr AH, the green items go directly to NPCs vendors for a few silver coins. I have nothing at all about the rest because I strictly roll on items I'm going to use. So nothing valuable to trade.

About the "design" aspect:
WoW for me (as a player) is an evolved DAoC. Or better, it has the same design layout with many bassic tweaks that I was waiting from a long time.

But I know that for now DAoC is stronger on the guild aspect. I know perfectly what you say about developing communal goals that will go against the solo aspect of the game but it is possible to make both coexist without problems.

In DAoC guilds are relevant aside the gameplay. The fact is that there's an "herald" where all these guilds are listed and categorized. The points you gain as a single character are then summed up as guild points and this already, without affecting directly the gameplay, builds an *identity* and a purpose.

I believe these games need more of this. They need structures to manage the chaos, to structure the communities and put back some order in the system. Or layers of control. DAoC's herald does this because it shapes the community in realms, alliances and guilds and then offering to everyone every type of data, again structuring the community. Giving it a specific, unique trait.

So there are two types of communal participation. The one I wrote about here doesn't need to go against the design choices existing already in the game.

But I'd like also to go further. Communal goals within the gameplay. As I explained many times the 'communal goals' are the opposite of joining a raid to hopefully obtain a powerful item for a personal use. What needs to be communal is really the *goal* and not just the process to reach it. At this point, if the goal is really communal, you can have also steps to play in solo. I believe this is the most "productive" mechanic to deliver fun and involvement. To join something that has a meaning *outside* your single character.

Now the point would be about *why* you don't want the commitment to a guild, because it's probably there the knot to solve. Which is probably unrelated to have communal (accessible) gameplay in the game. At the guild level or not.

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Just because I think advancement is driven by egoistic genes...

Raph (not verified) on January 27, 2005 - 07:51.

...doesn't mean that I think that "communal gameplay where more players band up to achive a real communal goal can offer a more involving type of fun that till now we've never seen in this genre and even outside of it." I'd also say you haven't been watching if you think that it hasn't been seen (or that I haven't been pushing it). Surely things like player cities, be they in SWG or in Shadowbane, are this?

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