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(Semi) Linear content progression

Submitted by Abalieno on June 23, 2005 - 22:50.

This is just a quick note to pin down one of the design issues about my "dream mmorpg" that I was considering. So that I don't forget about it.

The problem comes as a consequence of the skill system. If the game isn't built on levels many useful structures simply vanish. In World of Warcraft the levels are extremely useful from many different perspectives. They are used to build zones bundling together the players around a similar level range. This isn't a trivial feature and it's instead tied to many core concepts. A zone has its own chat channels, its own offer of content, its own (temporary) sub-community. This allows to "chunk" these elements and the larger community into manageable units. If the players are put in an environment, sharing a similar status, they can also build groups and play together in order to reach the shared goals more easily. This builds the social aspects and allows at the same time to immerse the players in an environment that they can understand and begin to interact with.

But what happens if there is no direct and artificial separation between the players? From a side we solve a huge and consolidated complaint coming from those players that hate to get split from their friends and foreced out of the "accessibility" of the game. In fact we know that removing these "walls" is good. But from the other side we lose the depth of the system along with the whole RPG perspective. The content becomes all relative, all accessible, always, maybe even through insta-ports from everywhere in the world. And it would be extremely hard to recognize an experienced player from a newbie and this would ultimately frustrate the players and directly bring to closed communities that will never accept to open up their "friend list" (A big issue even if it doesn't seem so at a first glance, the "who cares?" typical reaction).

To manage all these points my (rough) idea is to use the content to give some substance to the world and develop the characters. To an extent this happens already in Guild Wars. The players move and gain access to new zones by accomplishing missions more than just by levelling up. Even without the need of coding a strict level system, the content can still be used to bring along the players on their journey and mark this path in a significant way.

This brings the design back to a "world" model more than an artificial ruleset that strictly imposes its will. Your access to the various parts of the game isn't anymore defined from external rules but defined instead by logical reasons coming from the game-world. The player will move on its own journey through the story-lines, developing its character and following logical purposes. I'd leave behind the extreme linearity of Guild Wars to open up choices. So instead moving from (A) to (B) and then (C), the player should chase down his interest and explore the game-world following logical ties and interactions (discovering, exploring, making choices as an active element of the system). Instead of a strict linear progression of the content the model is to mimic the complexity of a world, with more complex ties between the parts, more choices and persistent elements that do not systematically reset.

This idea is a compromise between the two approaches, in order to collect the qualities of both and minimize the limits. From a side the artificial walls (levels) between the players are removed, from the other the content is built in a logic, believable way to bring in a definite progression that can be recognized and used. At the same time moving away from an artificial linear progression of content (as seen in Guild Wars) to chase instead a model where the simulation of the "world" is consistent with what happens and where the progression from a point to another is subject to logic, self-consistent ties. Opening up choices and non-linear (but logic and natural) progress.

Reducing even more: from a side the artificial walls and boundaries are removed, from the other they are progressively rebuilt in order to recreate and respect the natural (complex) behaviour of a "world".

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Ramblings...

Ofbac (not verified) on July 13, 2005 - 13:58.

Part of the "trap" of levels is the player's sense of achievement related to leveling up. "Ding! I hit 40!" It's an alluring trap. You look at your exp bar and can work for a night or 2 or 3 and work towards a specific and visible goal and see your progress and feel that sense of advancement and achievement.

I've longed to see a game where the core concept revolves not around levels but rather around attained abilities. For example instead of grinding from 35 to 40, you would engage in a series of quests or hunts that offered a reward. The reward would come in the form of selecting a new ability perhaps. Choosing the ability helps define your character (perhaps in ways that break away from the enforced archetype systems). Now, with that new ability in hand, you can handle slightly more difficult encounters.

The ability does not come with an automatic increase in your AC and HP and 5 stat points to spend. It's not just a disguised leveling up. Rather you had to choose from a set of abilities. Perhaps you chose a defensive ability. Perhaps you chose an offensive ability, or a team support ability or a personal advancement (such as stats).

Via this you direct your character on its own path through activity that is not tied to a level based system. You retain the ability to group with anyone you wish, knowing that some party members may have greater or lesser abilities depending on their experiences. One can easily visualize a number of simple system that identifies "younger" characters from "older" characters so that you can seek out those of similar overall ability levels.

One of the problems that arises from the removal of a level based character system is the balancing of difficulty with reward. For the seasoned veteran, wading solo through a quest oriented towards a team of novices would need to be controlled from becoming an exploit and also from the "powerleveling" (or in this case is it PowerAbilitying?) aspect. The solutions for this will have to be married to the way that abilities are given and encounter difficulty is structured.

The conceptual effort related to building a construct to accomplish this is part of why we see cookie-cutter MMOs. When one can point to the various games with level based systems and say "That works", it is difficult to justify to the suits that your game needs to strike out into relatively uncharted waters. The folks staring at the bottom line will nearly always back the play involving "proven" techniques even when those techniques are outdated.

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Re: (Semi) Linear content progression

Lorna (not verified) on October 20, 2005 - 13:17.

I just have to reply to one point about people being different levels, and exploiting.

I've played RPGs for 20 years now, and I'm a big addict of MMORPGs as I'm sure many of you are. I loved SWG and I miss it dearly, at least what it was before they destroyed it with the combat revamp. I now play WoW a lot.

The linear quests at the start of a game are all fine for learning how to play your character. But the mention of stopping people exploit by helping other people through those quests is a concern for me. I don't know if you have all read all the other stuff I just did about different levels of players (the pyramid etc) and people higher in the pyramid need players lower in the pyramid to help them fulfil what they need from the game, but I refer to that.

My biggest joy in WoW, after dying about 1000 times on the way to 60 Druid, is helping low level players through Deadmines. They're at a level where, especially for weaker classes like Priests, they have more problems soloing and the content isn't high enough level that people seek them out for groups. I take them through the dungeon and I solo all the mobs and bosses and they keep all the loot and get XP and complete their quests. I love it and they love it. I don't get anything out of it but pure fun. I even published a movie about it at www.warcraftmovies.com (search for Lorna). Blizzard's unfair rules about level 20 mobs being able to hit a 60, but not vice-versa, means I have a repair bill of 1 or 2 gold each run I do, so you could call it an expensive hobby. The low level players get much reduced XP, but they do get some, and they have a real experience IRL as well as their characters in the game.
I don't consider that exploiting, and I won't play any game that somehow prevents it entirely. Its the reason I invested my 200 hours to get to 60, so I could help people to that extent. Suppose Mrs Martha pays the local kids $10 for each raccoon they hunt and kill, and the kids get together with sticks and nets and hunt them and try not to get bitten and get rabies. Suppose an ex-soldier passes through and reads the bounty, or is asked for help, and goes into the woods and BAM BAM BAM, 20 dead raccoons, kids take sack of them back and get $200. Thats only fair. The soldier could make more money than that by stopping a robbery at the local bank, etc.
Now, maybe players are 'supposed' to spend 2 hours slowly doing that instance, to 'experience' it properly, but if we're talking about game mechanics now, I've now grinded two level 60 characters and the complaints of my friends who have quit WoW, that it was an endless treadmill, are carrying more and more weight. If my alts (other characters) get to 15 and need Deadmines, I'll find a group who can do it easily. I don't plan on my Priest dying 1000 times like my Druid did.
And thats why I keep paying my $15 a month, because I can relax by helping people, big time. I don't do it for the endgame, where 80 hours of gameplay, dying all the time and being yelled at over Ventrillo, to get one purple item. And I promise, no player has ever stopped paying their $15 because of me helping them in quests, they have such a fun time in there :)

Couple other points, please, because you guys seem to know what you're talking about, please quote me or copy to where my 2c might be relevant, I only got here by accident and read the 50 pages I just did simply by clicking links in other posts :)

I loved SWG partly because whenever I made a new character, going round just doing simple missions and grouping to do them was such fun. Never seemed to get bored of that. Also doing the surveying to find resources was fun and with a bit of work could make money that I felt I *earned*. Getting my first harvester, or making my first one, was always a landmark. WoW doesn't have anything like that.

I guess I'm someone who wants a virtual world, and wants to help a whole tier of people below me once I'm experienced enough. SWG had Doctors. Some people hated it, but the queues of people wanting buffs at Starports was like a community service, and made reasonable money. Being a Doc and buffing people for 10k was like a job, and needed concentration, and meant talking to customers. "Can you heal my wounds too if I give you 12k?" says an armored figure, mostly black barred with 500 health, action, and other wounds. (Wounds were great in SWG). "Ok" I say happily, knowing I'm helping someone, and the extra 2k covers the wound packs I took pride in making. BAM BAM BAM his wounds are healed. Yay! My mind is all drained. "Just let me rest a minute - mind" and he says "Thanks Doc, ok, no rush" and I let me mind recharge and then buff him. That was a GREAT interaction. It also made cities serve a purpose other than transport, and it involved players at more than one level of the pyramid you talked about.
By contrast, in WoW, despite Druids being "the best buffers in the game" if I join a group of 40 people and they don't have a druid, I can buff all of them in seconds and will rarely get a thank you. The buffs are so toned down anyway that if I forgot to, people often don't even ask for the buffs :(

I'm sure I don't need to say much about player cities to you guys, but in SWG I knew every inch of every planet, and yet I could be exploring looking for resources (which was more fun than looking for known spawns of Mithril/herbs in WoW) and I'd come across a town I hadn't seen before, because it wasn't there before. Or I might need to seek out the nearest garage to have my speeder looked at. Awesome stuff! And having my own house - at one point I made the best uptown square I ever saw in the game, 10 medium naboo houses, with a park and a statue I got the city to put up, and I could keep all my trophies on display. Actually it was too hard to move things in houses, the main achievement I did was a small scale model of the entire square, rendered in little boxes inside the 'show house'. :)
WoW, by contrast.. no reason to explore anymore, not going to find anything new. If I meet players, they're not going to want help, most likely, can't heal my wounds (there arent any), or fix my gear (they cant), so all you can do is wave and maybe mutual buffage, which doesn't seem to make a difference anyway.
Now.. the problem I have in WoW is I can't keep or display all the old weapons and stuff I'm proud of. Only.. I never had anything I wanted to display in SWG, a vibroknuckler looks like another VK.. so thats bad for SWG but I remember the weapons I upgraded from in WoW (which is good for WoW) but I can't keep them and I can't display them.

I'm sure nobody is reading this anymore, but I'm not running WoW down, its the only game I play now, but if its best points were combined with what SWG *was*, I'd want to play THAT game. WoW is awesome and I haven't listed its good points, only the places where SWG was much better.

I also loved the dancing and related buffage in SWG. Got more players involved. Shame it got taken over by buffbots, but I liked the ability to automate boring parts of the game. Like, I had to peel 30,000 carrots or something to become a master chef, hurt my wrists getting just one box of it.. but the crafting system was awesome!!

What future MMORPGs need, is the best of the above, and also more ways to interact and RP with players. These are supposed to be RPGs. There is no RP in the game, other than typing "Lorna limps along slowly" and anything else you can type.
Suppose my guild master tells me as part of the RP scenario we're playing on and off, I have a disease that halves all my stats and makes me lose 100 health every minute, and I'm surrounded by a green cloud.. and I have to drink water every 60 seconds or I fall over. And the only cure is from killing the Postmaster in Stratholme or something. And if I can get a group, guild or otherwise, to take me along *in that condition* to do it, I'm cured and get some sort of RP reward like a title or points towards one, or I progress the story the guildmaster is running...
...all those effects etc should be scriptable. You should be able to program debuffs for yourself for RP purposes, or have a list of people or guilds who are allowed to debuff you in certain ways, for RP purposes. Doesn't hurt game balance, its a debuff.
...and if I need to help the guild in Molten Core or another Endgame dungeon, I type /rp and it toggles out of RP mode and all related debuffs are gone. EASY!!
For WoW the only real problem is they'd need to make the debuff limit really big to prevent exploiting, or add one line of code to prevent RP-debuffs knocking off PVE ones. - WHY does WoW have a debuff limit? The server can't remember more than 16 debuffs per player? Is it coded in QuickBasic or something??? Anyway, not hard to do. Really.

Another thing I should almost patent, it will be so big when someone bothers to do it, is player-made-instances. Release the map editor. Release a mob editor just like Warcraft 3 had. It doesn't affect the world-mobs at all. Let players build their own instances with quests in them, custom bosses, everything. When they enter the instance, their character is saved along with current XP, inventory, etc, and when they leave the instance, whatever happened in there IS LOST and you're back to how you were. Top level players in the Pyramid, maybe ones who are paying a premium to play, or who have gotten to level 60, could build these and offer them to their guild, or even post them on the net. Have a separate instance server if there is any risk of it crashing the game. Make them book time in it if it's too popular, or have a raid lockout on custom instances maybe. I think it would become the most popular thing for people to do, endgame, even though they couldn't advance their character by doing them. The guildleader and his officers or agents, could play NPCs in the instance, and have whatever RP goals they wanted, or just make it a hack and slash fest.
All those things were possible in pen and paper (PnP) RPGs and are sadly lacking in all the models of the Ultimate MMORPG you all have suggested. But I know this would be an awesome success if someone did it.
Actually, since Warcraft 3 had all that built in, I don't know why Blizzard didn't do it already.

Ok my last point - you're all saying new content is expensive. Huh? Ok, people who are good at using a map editor cost money.. not more than $100,000 a year, surely though. Drag and drop an NPC, make it look unique with the Character Editor, and write out a quest where you have to kill 10 of x mob to complete the quest. Maybe the NPC doesnt like rabbits, so they want you to kill 10 rabbits to get some reward. Ok theres more to it than that, but not a LOT more, and you have someone on the payroll building the storyline and they can spend a day writing up some quests that would make sense. Have a Dev team of 10 people who cover all the skills needed, and they constantly build new zones and fill them with interesting things and new quests and stuff. That costs $1 million per year to do. Blizzard make $60 Million a MONTH, its not an extra cost that means that 4 million people have to pay another $15 every year to get the results of this teams work. $1M is not $60M, and it should be part of the baseline costs anyway. I know companies want to make money, but don't destroy a future game by saying they HAVE to charge more for expansions, that puts a lot of customers off. I want to play EQ one day, but do I have to buy all the expansions or miss out?

Thanks for reading. I just want to play the game I want to play, sometime in the future :) If I had $50M I'd make it, but I don't.

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