The Cesspit. - The Cesspit

EQ's Sick Joke

Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:31:20 -0700

There is one of the most hotly-contested debates going on right now regarding lack of low level players, and lack of players at all, at eqplayers.com. The title is "Is this a sick joke, or not?", the forum is The Newbie Zone, and everyone, from those who love EverQuest to those who hate it, have posted. I would like to invite you to check it out, and, perhaps, to post it on your site or blog. It's bitter, angry, friendly, frighteningly honest, and hilariously insane.

Check it out.

An excerpt:

Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? [ Edited ] Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 27 of 77

Viewed 534 times

I am on Emarr right now. If I do a /who all 1 20 I get too many names to list.

I don't get any Zabela's though.

Edited:

Actually on /who all I get

level count

11 6
12 8
13 6
14 5
15 7
16 3
17 4
18 6
19 3
20 8

Admittedly it is not tons and tons of people, but it is more than one.

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 06:59 PM

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 07:01 PM

08-13-2006 06:56 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Akenta
Philosopher
Posts: 141
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 28 of 77

Viewed 515 times

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zabela wrote:

Look, when I sign on there is only one server available to me. There has only ever been one server. If there were other options, I would have tried those. I've really exhausted all my options here. If I only have access to one server, isn't that another reason why the game doesn't work?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A little off topic, but what would cause only one server to show up? I think if we solve this problem, than Zabela can get on a progressive server and group and all will be happy .
08-13-2006 07:01 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 29 of 77

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I think a subscription might be needed. I also think the Progression servers would be a good place to go, but it might be good money after bad to go for the extra $15.
08-13-2006 07:02 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

mitic
Champion
Posts: 302
Registered: 11-23-2005

Reply 30 of 77

Viewed 502 times

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iceblossom wrote:

level count
11 6
12 8
13 6
14 5
15 7
16 3
17 4
18 6
19 3
20 8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yes, i can see now that everquest is still alive and rolling!

sorry, but i could not resist.

Mitic Supermodel, Enchanter (The Combine)

Everquest is Dead, Long Life to Everraid!

08-13-2006 07:06 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Crystabel
Apprentice
Posts: 10
Registered: 12-15-2004

Reply 31 of 77

Viewed 498 times

Just a note: the /who command only tells you how many people are in the zone, not on the whole server. Right now (I play on Emarr) there are 88 people just in POK. There are about 350 in the Bazaar (obviously not playing, but that is certainly more than 20).

Also, have you gone to the hot zones? There is a sticky on the main page of this particular forum that tells you what zones are giving extra experience for which levels. Many people are in those zones to make good experience. I have made a new character who is now 34 and she has been playing in The Overthere which at times has had about 35 people in it. Not as much as in the old days when Kunark just came out, but pretty decent considering how many zones there are and enough to be able to get into a group. I think Swamp of No Hope is the correct hot zone for your level 15 and you may want to see who is there. If they are not there check Paludal Caverns - there are always players in there since they go from the Tutorial to Paludal until about 20ish because the exp bonus is high in Paludal Caverns. Paludal is connected to Shadow Haven which can be accessed from the Nexus or the Bazaar - both of those zones connect to Plane of Knowledge. Paludal can also be accessed from Shar Vhal but the majority of the players are on the other side at the Shadow Haven end.

When you log into your account do you press quick connect? Entering your password and clicking quick connect will bring you to the server you last played on. If you just enter your password and hit your enter key, or click on the Log In button it will bring you to the server list. There should be many to choose from on that page and there will also be a button on the bottom that say Erollisi Marr on it because it was the last one you were on. However if you click on and highlight another server and click the Play Everquest button you will go to a different server.

I hope that helps a little.

Crystabel

08-13-2006 07:07 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Gryphon_Lord
Journeyman
Posts: 48
Registered: 09-22-2004

Reply 32 of 77

Viewed 497 times

With an attitude like yours, who cares if you are having fun? Move on to a game that requires less social skills, more inline with the few you possess.

Lui

08-13-2006 07:07 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 33 of 77

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Yes that isn't a lot of players, is it? Especially when you consider that half of them are in the bazaar. Massive multiplayer? I think no.

Trying another server would be nice, but look, I already paid for the software. I've spent hours playing, hoping to meet somebody. Anybody. Somebody at all.

But at my level there are exactly 5 players not sitting in the bazaar. Five. Primetime. Sunday night, 7:00 pm PST, 8 Central, 9 East Coast. Five players. All in different places. All soloing. All frustrated, just like me.

08-13-2006 07:11 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 34 of 77

Viewed 488 times

Great, and so now people are back to insulting me. I suppose if you can't come up with any real answers, an insult will have to do.
08-13-2006 07:12 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

mitic
Champion
Posts: 302
Registered: 11-23-2005

Reply 35 of 77

Viewed 485 times

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zabela wrote:

Yes that isn't a lot of players, is it? Especially when you consider that half of them are in the bazaar. Massive multiplayer? I think no.

Trying another server would be nice, but look, I already paid for the software. I've spent hours playing, hoping to meet somebody. Anybody. Somebody at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

man i dont know why you just see one server on your screen...get it fixed and join combine or sleeper for company..thats all the help we can give you

Mitic Supermodel, Enchanter (The Combine)

Everquest is Dead, Long Life to Everraid!

08-13-2006 07:12 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 36 of 77

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Mitic, I've said already in this thread that the lower levels are low of people.

But spot checking because I really don't want to spend the evening typing out /who all and then breaking down when I get too many to list, I found people at every level. And, of course, /who all doesn't get the role and anon players.

I'm logging out now and going to Combine to see what the numbers are.

08-13-2006 07:13 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 37 of 77

Viewed 472 times

Ah, I got a real answer from CrystalBel. But no, I do not just hit quick connect. I go to the "list of servers", which, in my case, provides me with exactly one option.

08-13-2006 07:14 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Mooncage
Philosopher
Posts: 824
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 38 of 77

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
zabela wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You should ask those 5 if they want to group.

Mooncage

08-13-2006 07:15 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? [ Edited ] Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 39 of 77

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There are right now, specifically, a 13 beastlord and a 15 cleric in Everfrost. One zone away from you. I didn't go back through the list to see who else may be near by.

Edit:

There is also a 17 paly who has LFG up.

Message Edited by Iceblossom on 08-13-2006 07:18 PM

08-13-2006 07:17 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

zabela
Journeyman
Posts: 25
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 40 of 77

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Wonderful! Two players I can group with! What a change! What a response! What a huge number!

May I remind you that its Sunday night, 7:00 pm? Not Tuesday 3am. Not Saturday 6am. Sunday, 7pm. Yes, there are actually a few players I can group with. I guess I'll just have to limit my playing to exactly prime time. What fun.

08-13-2006 07:21 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Mouse_
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 08-13-2006

Reply 41 of 77

Viewed 456 times

Hello Zabela,
My husband and I did a similar thing. We played for a few years "back in the day" and have just today decided to reactivate our accounts. We decided that we'd rather start fresh (not wanting to be level 50+ characters that are noobs again) and relearn how we need to play and understand all the changes that occurred since 3 years ago when we quit. We're on 'The combine" server and we're seeing a lot of lower levels and so far (remember we just started again) we have not noticed alot of twinks (level 3 with uber armor and weaps) or power levelers. Which has been refreshing.

I think your real problem lies in figuring out how to start yourself on a new server. When you login, you should not hit the quick server button (or whatever it's called) you should then get a list of servers to choose from. The progressive ones are the top.

Good Luck, I understand your frustration, when my husband and I quit we were tired of not being able to get groups for our main characters that didn't take all day or all night. At one time we had the time to do that, but now we in it for the short spurts when we can squeeze in play and hopefully the meeting of friendly and fun people. If we find that it's not all that, we've wasted what $30 total? Not too bad.

I wish you luck and hope you can recaputure your original enjoyment.

Karrah
lvl 2 Barbarian Shaman
The combine server
08-13-2006 07:23 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Iceblossom
Guardian
Posts: 6235
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 42 of 77

Viewed 445 times

Some people don't want to be helped. Some people delight in being upset.

That there are two people in the next fighting zone from you since you are in Halas and a third that actually (unlike you) has LFG up means, of course, nothing. Because you aren't satisfied. Not from any other reasons. You just want to throw a tantrum and then cry that you are being insulted. I suppose you mean "soccer mom" in the nicest possible way, don't you?

The problem is not the game.

08-13-2006 07:31 PM

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Re: Is this a sick joke, or what? Options

Akenta
Philosopher
Posts: 141
Registered: 03-01-2004

Reply 43 of 77

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Does anyone else think that Ice is starting to sound more like Kharl

(no offense to either of you)

... and it just gets better ... :)

To Game or not to Game

Wed, 09 Aug 2006 03:00:59 -0700

Hi im new to this website and i havent looked through it throughly enough to see that maybe someone already wrote on the same or almost on the same topic.

What i want to express is my confusion about the world of games ; Single Player , MMO's or whatever the case may be. I have recently noticed that in the last 6 or so months i havent played a game though would immediately spring into mind if i try to remember a good game that i enjoyed. There just have not been any good games that i remember, if i try to remember further i think of a couple. My point being , is it just me or has the game industry deteriorated ? I mean seriously lets take The Movies or Black and White 2 or one of those "promising titles thats gonna change the way we think about games" , didnt change much for me just the fact that it was total crap. So those failed games were maybe good to someaudiences but now Microsoft bought Lionhead and now they are probably gonna happily stamp clone games for PS3,Xbox and so on ... =) The revolutionary game Doom 3 with its new gen graphics bla bla bla ; personally i played the game for 10 minutes and the only thing i liked in it was the flashlight then i erased it and never even thought about installing it again, same with Quake 4 . Im not talking about the complete failure of the multiplayer in those games (my opinion anyway). What else was a big mess up .... hmm almost all the games that have come out recently , EA games im not even going to mention , its not worth it. Last good game i played was Vampire Bloodlines and i didnt sell well enough so Troika went bankrupt , so the way it works is a good company makes a good game and then it goes bankrupt because everybody is playing PS2.

Same story with MMO's ; Star Wars Galaxies came out and the only way i found out that it was out was from Allakhazam where i was looking for WoW stuff, so that cant tell me its good can it ? Same with The Matrix Online , for the hardcore fans only . WoW i dont know its a confusing game to me, i play it eagerly but at the same time i think that im being spoonfed and there isnt a point to the game . I think WoW's success lies in the fact that it was such a popular universe before the game was even in concept stage. Blizzard just had to pick out the best of MMORPG'S available to that day and put a Warcraft theme to it. Done. You have a Winner. Nothing original but the most played MMO. No Comments.

This is only my opinion but maybe its right:)

Does SE really care about RMT ?

Mon, 13 Mar 2006 16:42:26 -0800

I think money has something to do with the way SE handles these things. I believe that money is more important then banning suspected accounts. Seriously they have so much more power in their hands. And yet nothing is done. They make the rules about what is allowed and what is not. They are the ones writing the stuff you have to sign up to when you agree to play. I mean they say botting is illegal. But yet certain players are online 24/7 for months at a time. Years even. There is no logical reason to why these players are allowed to continue to play.

If SE or any other company made it impossible to play for more then 30 hours without logging. They would give the Gilsellers and powerleveling services a big blow.If a gilseller char is beeing prevented from playing for 10 hours. They are loosing money. Because time is money this is the best way I believe to fight the RMT business.

I know that SE has done somethings lately. But why aren't they doing the logical thing banning the bots ?

Daniel

SWG NGE producers letters... we are going to do ...!

Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:13:41 -0800

letter1 from Julio

Greetings Everyone

3 months since NGE and everyone hasn't bailed (yeah!).

and all those demo accounts are really proping up the consumer numbers.

you asked for the NGE and you got it..

this year we are going to Refine, Fix, & Improving The Existing Game

we are going to fix the bugs that have been there since beta.

we are going to test publishes.

say again, we are going to try to fix some bugs.

we arn't just giving jedi stuff all professions are getting new (non descript) stuff !!

we are gonna force the devs to post on the boards more.

we are even gonna tell you a little about whats going on before it goes live !!.

the producers are gonna post more letters like this one more often, let me hear a yeah!!!!.

Letter 2 from Grant McDaniel

HI, My name is Grant McDaniel

I'm part of the SWG development team.

I'm a Star Wars fan since I was a kid.

i'm excited leading the SOE development team into the future.

This year we are going to add content.

We are going to add stuff to each of the 9 "Iconic" (Trademark) Professions.

We want your support and feedback.

Here a high level outline of what all the classes do.

we are going to fix some bugs this year

The future is bright.

May the Force be with you!
Grant “Rogue_5” McDaniel, Producer – SOE

useful stuff....

The tripartite model

Sun, 12 Feb 2006 01:55:52 -0800

I paste here the short version so that I can link it. The complete, detailed version is here.

I'm also going to save at the bottom the discussion, when I have time.

Shild:
To add, I've actually been struggling with adopting single player storylines to MMORPGs for a while, though I often use Deus Ex as my example. It's simply easier for me to visualize. The best way to do it though would be to heavily instance anything concerning the main story while side quests and the open city were the MMORPG part. By branching it into instances and allowing the story to morph somewhat according to your actions in the MMORPG section of the world, I think a compelling game would be created. It would require a project manager the likes of which the game industry has never seen though.

Ding.

This was my idea from the very beginning. See the scheme.

The three layers: (1) open pvp sandbox - (2) (soloable) narrative - (3) communal PvE - happen in different parts of the world:

(1) The "shards" here are the PvP (persistent) war maps where the players are divided in three hardcoded factions (+ player-made). Where there's also the emergent level of the RTS (managing resources, supply lines, patrols etc..) and where all the level of the trade/economy exists. The whole world here is at 100% in the hands of the players. This is the Sandbox pushed to the limit. And this layer would try to simulate much more than just combat. This should be a complete, detailed "virtual world". At war.

(2) From these shards the players can use portals to travel to the "planes" (see the image, these are also persistent). These are other dimensions (the game setting was based on "Stormbringer", by Michael Moorcock, one of the best "dark fantasy" writers EVER). The multiverse. The planes work like social hubs. They are one rather big zone that pivots around a NPC big outpost/city whatever (depending on the different settings for each plane). From here the players can adventure in the proximity of the city (since there's a certain amount of wilderness sourrounding the city/hub) or open portals to other dimensions (and here we have a total freedom on the content of these dimensions). These portals mean that from there onward you are instanced. It can be a dungeon as it can be a completely independent WORLD. As I wrote elsewhere the idea is to have a "fluid" perception of reality, where everything can happen and where you can add "destabilizing" elements for the player. You become a traveler of worlds, the potential is ENDLESS. This level I described is the level of the narrative I explain in this thread. This is also the part that must be COMPLETELY SOLOABLE. With groups of players of four at max and balanced by default for duos.

(3) Third is the level of the communal PvE. You are still on the planes and the communal PvE can be or an instance or some encounter out there in the wilderness (out of the city/hub). To have access to these encounters you need to "unblock" them by progressing in the narrative. These are more epic instances less based on a solid, involving story. And more based on the group mechanics/challenge. This is also a level deeply interconnected with the first (the PvP) because these instances have the main purpose of summoning powerful artifacts that can only be used on PvP (also unique per-world and lootable in combat if you die).

See the three levels? The Sandbox is open, persistent, not instanced. The Narrative is open (for the social hub around the main cities) and then instanced so that the player can immerse himself. The progress here is about *the story*. The quests exist for the story coherently with what I wrote just above. And finally the third level that is the "social" PvE. Both instanced and not, that is also tied with the wirst layer. Bringing every aspect of the game together.

Note: The game is "skill based" and on a flat power curve. The power differential is kept low between new and veteran players, so that they can ALWAYS play and adventure together. The character advancement, for the most part, is optional. You can choose to advance your character playing one of the three layers or all at once. The progress depending on the research, instead, (to find rarer spells, evocations and so on. Basically the "meat" of your skills) is strictly tied to the "narrative", which is, again, soloable. The third level (communal PvE), instead, is NOT tied to the character progress. You WON'T get more powerful items you cannot achieve in the "single-player" game. This level works only for some rare items, skills and spells that define a "status". But not directly the power. Never as "more powerful version of the same".

This means that the only, truly mandatory layer is the one of the narrative (and in fact it's soloable to keep it accessible for everyone). The other two (sandbox and communal PvE) are optional.

A WoW Retrospective... and thoughts on the Future.

Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:24:27 -0800

So, after playing the game for close to a year of my life I'm finding myself dissecting it, taking a good look at both its positives and negatives and assessing the reasons why I continue to play.

I thought I would put down my thoughts and post them in the hopes that it promotes discussion. I posted this on the EU WoW General board and, of course, it was lost almost immediately in the deluge of non-constructive detritus.

I have two level 60s, both well equipped with blues/purples. One is on a PvP server and the other is on a PvE server. My current main is in a guild which does full MC runs in a few hours and has just taken down Nefarian so we're essentially waiting for AQ whilst farming the existing high-end instances.

I don't consider myself a 'hardcore' player. I have a full time job and various evening commitments etc. I'm simply very efficient with the gaming time I have available. I was an avid player of WCIII but WoW is my first MMORPG.

In the simplest terms, there are three reasons why I enjoy the game:

Immersion - I love the look and feel of the game world. Even at level 60, it's still fun to hit Alt+Z and ride around taking in the scenery and I still get a kick out of little things like leaping from the Booty Bay dock into the water. WoW gets criticised as being cartoony but I consider it to be very stylised and I like the look. I grew up on Adventure Gamebooks and, at least from a visual and aesthetic point of view, it reminds me of the imaginary worlds I inhabited as a kid.

Interaction - Whilst I will always consider real life to be better, I do believe that the social interaction involved in WoW is both genuine and positive. I've had some really good laughs with friends in the game and it has spawned countless in-jokes and reminders of good times had. The interaction is not limited to the social aspect, however, as I very much enjoy interacting with the opposing faction via. PvP. Friendly competition is also a draw - the success and advancement of your character is something of a visual 'hi-score table' which can be compared to other players. I don't consider myself elite or have a 'higher than thou' attitude but I think everyone can appreciate the joys of getting a rare or cool looking item.

Advancement/Goal Achieving - Obviously this is a satisfying element and could be considered the main object of the game. Leveling to 40, saving for a mount, leveling to 60, mastering the tactics for instances, becoming proficient at your class, leveling skills and reputation, etc. This is something I do feel satisfied about, considering I have leveled two characters to 60 and have essentially seen/conquered most (if not all) of the content in the game.

This brings me onto what I feel I now need from the game in order to sustain my interest. When I first started out the game world seemed incredibly vast and amazing. The ceiling on the game world is now clearly visible and the game world seems decidedly smaller. From an Immersion point of view, I think some freshness could be brought back (at least for me personally) by such simple things as new music and new loading screens. I enjoy exploring lesser travelled areas so the addition of more lonely, open spaces would also be something I'd enjoy. Things that would require a bit more to impliment (but which I would love) would be weather effects (I really hope this is added in the expansion) and greater character customisation (perhaps the ability to customise the colour of armour, equipment etc.). From what I understand, much of the original creative team left Blizzard, so I hope the new designers can produce as good (if not better) work on the game's aesthetics.

The Interactive side of the game seems to work fine as it is, although I would like to see a larger (and annotated) ignore list. As for PvP, however, I think the system needs a complete overhaul. I refuse to join in with 'rank grinding' as it is an entirely flawed system and is not 'skill based' enough for my liking. It bears no relevance to the opposing faction since you are essentially competing against your own side for Honor. I very much enjoy PvP from a combatative point of view, though. From my experience on a PvP server I felt that Battlegrounds killed the player established, balanced, "wilds" PvP. Less fights for the fun of it because skillfull PvP has been replaced with repetitive Honor grinding taking place in instanced Battlegrounds. PvP servers seem to have just become PvE servers-with-extra-griefing. Consequently, I'd really like to see more 'PvP enabled areas' such as the Gurubashi Arena but perhaps extended to the size of an entire zone so that there is the possibility of healthy "wilds" PvP even on a PvE server.

As for Advancement and Goal Achieving despite having experienced a large portion of the game already there are still things I'd like to personally accomplish. Leveling my cooking, fishing and all my trainable weapon skills up to 300, for instance. I have also yet to own an Epic Mount (mostly to do with having a full time job, and thus my playing time is taken up with raiding and not farming for cash). I do think the game would benefit hugely by more 'alternative' goals in the game (such as becoming Admiral of the Bloodsail Pirates). I don't really have the inclination to grind faction reputation (due to time constraints as mentioned above) so anything that provides an alternative 'path' in the game which isn't a deliberate timesink would be a nice addition. Incidently, I really enjoyed the Epic Hunter quest because of the fact it had to be done solo and was a nice change from the usual instanced, 40-man raids. I really like the fact that such great movies have been made from the game, and that too is something I want to create at some point.

How confident am I that my game needs will be met? Well, I'm not entirely sure. Blizzard will no doubt continue to impliment new content/instances but will they be really all that different from what's currently in the game? Will boss encounters be a bit more innovative or will they simply stick to the same old formula of aggro retention and 'do X in Phase 1, Y in Phase 2' structure? Also, I do think the game really needs to have something injected into it to make it feel newer, rather than slightly different coded variations of the same things. I've actually found myself drawn to other MMORPs simply because of the potential to 'start over' again with something that feels completely new and be in a position where the ceiling of content seems like many, many adventures away.

I am looking forward to the future of WoW but I also feel that there's every possibility my expectations will not be met. In the short term, we'll see how AQ pans out, and in the long term I guess a lot will be riding on the Expansion. From a personal point of view though, I can't help but feel like I'm coming towards the 'end' of the game. :\

[Eve-Online] A guide to missiles

Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:49:28 -0800

On the official site there's a wonderful guide explaining the turrets, not much about how the missiles work, though. Expecially since the significant changes in "Cold War".

This is an archive of some posts that should clarify how the missiles work. Completing the guide to the turrets.

--
Wrayeth:
Missiles are fairly simple. There are three factors to consider: missile velocity, target velocity, and target signature radius.

Missile velocity is fairly self-explanatory - if the missile is not fast enought to hit the target, it will follow until its drive burns out and then disappear, with no damage inflicted.

The second is target velocity. Each missile has an explosion velocity (check individual missile type for the exact amount). If the target's velocity exceeds the explosion velocity, the target takes reduced damage (which scales as the difference between explosion velocity and target velocity increases). If the target's velocity great enough in comparison to the explosion velocity, the target will not take any damage at all (really a fraction of a percent of 1 point of damage). Please note that missiles do not inflict extra damage for the target being under the explosion velocity - anything moving slower than the explosion velocity simply takes full damage (before resists, of course). Also note that the target's actual velocity is used, not transversal velocity.

The third factor is signature radius. Missiles have an explosion radius, and any target with a sig radius smaller than the explosion radius takes reduced damage. Again, damage does not increase beyond normal as the sig radius grows larger than the explosion radius - the missiles just inflict full damage before resists.

Add these three factors together and you have the current missile system.

Things that will help you kill targets that are smaller than your particular missile's exlosion radius and/or faster than its explosion velocity:

Stasis Webifier - reduces target max velocity by 75% (or more, for named).

Nosferatus and Neutralizers - indirect. Kills target's cap, making it impossible for them to use speed enhancing modules, such as MWD and afterburner.

Target Painter - increases target's sig radius.

Target Painter Drones - increase target's sig radius.

--
Design notes from TomB (dev):
The overhaul of the missile system is mainly focused on:

# Reducing damage for bigger missiles against smaller ships - the missiles now uses the Signature Radius of the target which gets factored by a new missile attribute called Explosion Radius, where the explosion can only deal maximum damage to a ship that meets the Explosion Radius in size
Damage can be increased on ships that have Signature Radius smaller than the Explosion Radius by either using Target Painter on the target or if the target activates a MWD, the intend how ever is not to make MWD none useable around missile boats as the velocity will be used as a damage factor as well

# Keeping ship velocity a factor for missile combat, allowing it to reduce the damage - each missile class will have a unique threshold where ship velocity can decrease the damage dealing and a unique factor of how fast the damage decreases per m/s once that threshold is met
Everyone who loves shooting or fears getting hit by missiles should give this a test for the feel of how the velocity factor works for the different missile types, it is still at the first level, it will getter a better look at

# Increased missile velocity - this is to make them more friendly & feared at long distanced combat engagements, missiles "do not" have the same benefit of instant damage on module activation that turrets are capable of, while they "do" have the benefit of consistent damage

Known issue here is missiles visually disappearing in space; this has been investigated and fixed (possible the fix ain't out on the Test Server yet) and missile explosion occurring at freaked locations is still being investigated

# Increasing the missile skill group advancement - players that want to become ultra violent with missiles will be able to get skills to improve their missiles in various ways

-
Torpedoes:
Their base damage on average sized battleships does not change, Torpedoes are still able to deal the most damage to battleships and are the hardest missiles to counter, they are how ever not as fast as guided missiles, do not have the same possible range and damage is easier to reduce with ship velocity.

# Extreme damage capabilities against big ships like before, but very little damage to smaller ships and easily reduced with velocity

# Velocity has been increased from 750m/s to 1250m/s base, capable of 1875m/s with skills and 2813m/s with a single ship bonus

# Base distance has been reduced, but able to cross 84km with skills and to 127km with a single velocity or flight time ship bonus

Cruise Missiles:
Like all other guided missiles they have maximum velocity, are able to cross long distances in xl-greatly shortened time, significantly increased range and very high velocity is needed to affect their damage - the reason for all guided missiles to have the same velocity is because the velocity of the missiles are not considered a factor for being able of catching a ship or not, they all have to cross long distances and need the highest possible velocity

# They still work the same in damage against battleships but have been improved in DPS with cruise launcher changes (listed below), but only deal average damage to cruisers & frigates

# Velocity has been increased from 1600m/s to 3750m/s base, capable of 5625m/s with skills and 8438m/s with a single ship bonus

# Distance that these can cross has been increased by a big number, capable of 169km with skills and 253km with a single velocity or flight time ship bonus

Heavy Missiles:
Like all other guided missiles they have maximum velocity, are able to cross long distances in xl-greatly shortened time, significantly increased range and very high velocity is needed to affect their damage - the reason for all guided missiles to have the same velocity is because the velocity of the missiles are not considered a factor for being able of catching a ship or not, they all have to cross long distances and need the highest possible velocity

# The DPS for Heavy Missiles against cruisers has been increased with Launcher improvements (listed below), but only deal average damage to frigates

# Velocity has been increased from 1600m/s to 3750m/s base, capable of 5625m/s with skills and 8438m/s with a single ship bonus

# Distance that these can cross has been increased by a big number, capable of 84km with skills and 127km with a single velocity or flight time ship bonus

Light Missiles:
Like all other guided missiles they have maximum velocity, are able to cross long distances in xl-greatly shortened time, significantly increased range and very high velocity is needed to affect their damage - the reason for all guided missiles to have the same velocity is because the velocity of the missiles are not considered a factor for being able of catching a ship or not, they all have to cross long distances and need the highest possible velocity

# The DPS for Light Missiles against frigates stays same for average sized frigates, but gets a little less against the smallest frigates

# Velocity has been increased from 1600m/s to 3750m/s base, capable of 5625m/s with skills and 8438m/s with a single ship bonus

# Distance that these can cross has been increased by a big number, capable of 42km with skills and 63km with a single velocity or flight time ship bonus

Rockets:
These have not had much changed, they will stay the ultimate missile damage dealer for frigates in close range engagements but still limited on distance, their velocity how ever won't be increased much because of defender purposes in close range engagements

# The DPS for rockets is the same for mostly all ships

[*]Velocity has been increased from 1000m/s to 2250m/s base, capa

-
Launchers

The missile and launcher changes will make size classed weapons deal more damage per second to same ship class than bigger weapons, there are how ever two exceptions:
1. Cruise Launcher can deal similar amount as Heavy Launcher to a large cruiser with new guided precision skill
2. Assault Launcher deals more damage than rocket or standard launcher to large frigates with new guided precision skill

Siege Launcher: are only able to shoot Torpedoes, they are still the ultimate damage dealer for launchers.
* No more cruise missiles or FoF's

The Cruise Launcher: now shoots faster than before, it doesn't have the same damage capabilities as the Siege Launcher, but is a much better option than before and also gives fitting space for other grid/cpu greedy modules.
* Base RoF reduced from 28 seconds to 22 seconds
* Base Power Need increased from 1000 to 1250

The Heavy Launcher: also shoots faster than before, increasing the DPS against cruisers / battleships from currently on Tranquility.
* Base RoF reduced from 20 seconds to 18 seconds
* Base Power Need increased from 60 to 100

The Assault Launcher: has only had little reduced CPU need for fitting, it keeps it average DPS for a cruiser sized weapon, stays the king of defenders, also the only launcher that gives an edge against smaller ship classes in DPS.
* Base CPU Need reduced from 40 to 35
* Base Power Need increased from 30 to 50

The Standard Launcher: has had increased fitting requirements in power need, also due to changes to the light missiles it's now able to operate at further distances and significantly decreased down time to the start when damage starts taking place.
* Base CPU Need increased from 12 to 25
* Base Power Need increased from 3 to 8

The Rocket Launcher: also has had increased fitting requirements in power need, they will stay the ultimate frigate class launcher for DPS in shorter range engagements
* Base CPU Need increased from 12 to 15
* Base Power Need increased from 1 to 4

Defender Missiles: have had their velocity increased to 7500m/s so they are able of catching faster missiles, the Defender Skill continues increasing their velocity which enables them to get to 11250m/s, capable of crossing a distance of 113km.
Other changes to the multi-launcher-class Defender Missiles have not been done, i.e. you will need more than one defender to take out a Torpedo.

Skills

# Missile Launcher Operation - decreased rate of fire bonus from 5% to 2% (addon of Rapid Launch)

These are new skills that have been listed as possible advancement candidates for the missile changes:

# Missile Navigation - Increased missile velocity

# Missile Bombardment - Increased missile fly time duration

# Guided Missile Precision - Signature radius reduction factor on damage reduced for guided missiles

# Warhead Upgrades - Increased missile damage

# Target Navigation Prediction - The threshold where velocity of target starts decreasing damage is increased

# Rapid Launch - Increased rate of fire for launchers

# T2 Specialization - For T2 junk only

[WoW] 60 and Beyond

Sat, 17 Dec 2005 19:55:11 -0800

Saving the "letter" from the community managers to the players about the problem of raids Vs casual (accessible) content. Linked here.

--
Tseric:

We have been watching, reading, discussing and compiling a great deal of information regarding the discussion of character advancement at level 60. To be sure, all of you have had a great deal to say and many have contributed to this broad discussion who may not have before, and we thank you for your dedication to being heard and making your personal views known on the subject. We have seen this discussed between players, ourselves and the development team. From this we would like to convey a few ideas which we feel the player base should bear in mind in this discussion.

First, we are certainly aware of how you, in general, feel about this topic. If you feel you are being ignored or disregarded, it is simply not the case. To individually acknowledge every submission to this debate is not nearly as possible as reading every submission. We opt for the latter rather than the former. In addition, not only are we aware of your concerns, the development team is aware of your concerns. We have engaged in more than one meeting where this has been a topic, if not the topic of discussion. They read these boards as well and are not out of ear-shot of your voice.

The development of the casual end-game is a continuing process with us. You may not be completely satisfied with what we have at this point in time, but we are not done with developing this game. What is currently being developed and which we plan to address (and we do mean before release of expansion) are elements and content which touch on the areas in which some players feel the game is lacking.

# Stat progression for players who refrain from large groups
We have some particular ideas and plans which will allow players who do not wish to raid to upgrade gear and see some statistical improvement. These particular elements should hold an “epic” feel while remaining targeted at the solo and small-group player.

# Questing at 60
We realize that at 60, strong incentive for questing evaporates. Obviously, this is due primarily to experience rewards or the lack thereof at 60.We are developing methods to alter, yet reinvigorate questing for players who have reached the level cap.

We feel confident we have provided a great richness and variety into the game that many can draw from and have fun experiences. However, we are not done yet. There are events, quests, dungeons, and other content which have been in the works for some time and are going to be available in the foreseeable future. The issue here is simply that generating content takes time and the content being developed for, let us say, patch 1.9 has been in development for more time than simply since the release of 1.8. Development time is substantial, and while it’s certainly understandable for you to desire immediate changes, such an occurrence is not realistically feasible with the content creation cycle. That isn’t to say we’re not changing the game based on your feedback; far from it. It merely takes time – months’ worth -- for the suggestions being made today to become reality.

Along with that, much of what you are requesting is something we are still experimenting with and testing notions and ideas. Many have asked us to innovate new dungeons for smaller groups that have an epic feel. This is not out of our scope nor is it something we haven’t been working on. There are many ideas in the field of which you are requesting that we are developing. We will continue to work out viable paths to content that are appealing to smaller groups. Obviously, many of these ideas will be present in the expansion.

The key ingredient is time. We realize the expansion is in the future, but that does not prevent continued patches to occur before that. The important notion to bear in mind is that the things you wanted and requested months ago are closer to completion and implementation than the things you are requesting now.

In all honesty, we wanted the expansion to come out earlier than it likely will. As our first MMO, we were a little blind-sided by the incredible demand and popularity which this game received. This applied certain pressure and we did not secure some of the technology which is now allowing us to develop content at an improved rate. Through the nascent development of this game five years ago and through its turbulent release, our core design team has maintained a strong vision for this game which has obviously appealed to a great number of players. The selfsame core team, the veterans and original designers of this game, continue to make contributions today that are indicative of the quality entertainment this company has put forth time and again. We are still committed to making enjoyable games for as many as we can and our vision of that has not wavered, but matures over time. We have not lost sight of you or what you think is fun, we simply need to catch up to where we wanted to be previously. The raid content you see coming up is part of the complete picture we wanted to have for the game, but the complete picture is not based solely on raid content. Along with that, we are regarding the current debate and situation for some players as something that will not recur upon reaching the new level cap.

We do not consider this game any one play style’s right or governance. We cater to many tastes and work to provide content for all. While some of you may feel a lull in the action at this moment, we are in fact accelerating towards future releases and content. We are in a better position now to provide for you, the players, than we ever have before.

A discussion about voice chat

Sat, 03 Dec 2005 16:02:00 -0800

Saving part of a thread discussing the mandatory use of Voice Chat in WoW's endgame raids. It's pretty much self-explanatory.

--
First off, I am sick and tired of just about every single half-way serious raiding guild REQUIRING Teamspeak/Vent. Not to mention, all of the other add-ons. This game is NOT that complicated. Its actually pretty easy. Not to mention, you can just look up just about any boss encounter for the strategies.

I don't know about you, but when I get off of work, I really, really do not want to listen to 39 other voices barking orders or what-not. Its distracting, and annoying as heck. And theres always that one EMO, pimply-faced kid that is going through the onset of puberty with that cracking voice. Ugh. I simply like to enjoy this game to escape from real-life and enjoy my hobby. Having to listen to 39 other people for 4-6 hours does not fit in with either.

TS/vent didn't come with the game. All of these add-ons did not either. I'm pretty sure that everything up to and including Nef can be beaten pretty much naked. Besides, if Ts/vent is such a necessity, let the GM/officers have it, with comms going between just the raid leader and the leader of each group.

I've gotten through the entirety of ZG without using anything but what came in the game(okay, I use shardtracker, sue me). Haven't really done MC but once or twice. I was also in a successful PvP guild that won far more than it lost. No TS/vent amongst the members there. Worked just fine.

WoW is a game notorious for not really "bonding" its players together. I have made no friends in here. I don't want to have to hear stranger's voices from within my own home. I have no problem taking orders, as long as they are typed.

--
Kay.

And honestly, I don't care one way or another. Vent is fun, at time, and it does make things easier, but it's by no means a "requirement" for us. Two of our people are on Macs; they can't use it no matter what they do. One of our members just flat doesn't want to join. *shrug* Doesn't bug me.

--
We don't demand people use these mods but we suggest that people do. They do make things easier especially during the learning processes. That said, our guild is really quite friendly and so our TS conversations are often pretty light.

Also, in a raid, only the raid leader should be talking anyways.

--
Hyacinth:
We've managed to play online games of all sorts requiring teamwork for quite some time and I am mostly deaf (using something like Vent or TS just wouldn't work).

For years we managed before the technology was even "there" enough to use such a thing. I can understand that it would make things easier in some cases but I can also imagine what it must sound like when everyone gets excited.

--
These are my feelings exactly. Having a teenage party line channeled into my living room for hours at a time sounds like torture to me. I tolerate some voice comms for shooter games, but those don't go on for hours like WoW can, and I can freely bail whenever I want.

WoW IS easy mode. I played EQ for years, and went on all kinds of end game 40+ man raids. We never needed to use voice chat. Leaders took a few minutes to type a strategy for the encounter, and people followed it. There is nothing in the WoW encounters that can not be addressed before hand, and a strategy composed for in advance. Relying on voice is a crutch for people to lazy to type a few complete sentences before the fight begins.

I have no problem if other people want to use voice chat. It's just not something I want for myself. Yes, that means I'm barred from basically all end game raiding guilds. Fine with me. I don't plan on filing a discrimination lawsuit.

--
PEOPLE STOP WHINING.

Fine! dont use vent/TS, but if we require our members to Have it, and you dont, then dont join us! and stop complaining.

--
This is very simple.

If TS/Vent aren't at all necessary, then you shouldn't have any problems finding guilds that don't use/require them.

Right?

--
Wrong.

It's by no means necessary to take a 10-man raid into Scholomance. It was built for a 5-man team, and it can be done by a 5-man team, especially post-nerf.

So you shouldn't have any problems finding a 5-man team, right?

Wrong. You can shave a little difficulty off of it by taking in 10, so most people refuse to go in with less.

--
Hyacinth:
I don't think so, no. Necessary to run raids? Nope. Might be convenient, might be a preference but not necessary.

--
the thing is, MC is hard enough at it is. the main reason guilds require things like this is why make it harder than it has to be? it may not be necessary but it sure makes things a lot easier.

--
Hyacinth:
Hard for me to argue this because I can't use Vent/TS *but* we discussed the others in our guild using it and the concensus was that they didn't see a need. Since we don't do PUG stuff much and since we know our classes/jobs there's not too much need to talk. We have a shorthand system down (Peel/mage or sap/mob etc.) which works just fine and has through many games.

It's a convenience I think and no objection to that but necessary? Nah.

--
You can do it just fine without TS/vent but it just adds to the fun factor.

The pure hilarity of some of the things that happen on TS is worth it. Also makes it 10x easier for when things go bad or need someone to help you out.

And you can also laugh at your MT when he does something stupid and dies :)

--
Bingo. If it were not necessary, if it did not help so very much, guilds that want to raid (with few exceptions) would not require it.

--
Hyacinth:
Disagree. Having a preference can and does lead to a guild requirement. Many guilds prefer Vent/TS, they like being able to talk to one and other. That's fine, more power to 'em but it's not necessary to play the game well.

--
There is no usable Mac client available. Either Vent or Teamspeak. Both require the Speex (sp?) codec which most guild-hosted servers do not support.

The Ventrillo software is late-alpha stage. It crashes within a few seconds of startup.

I certainly have no particular desire to listen to 39 other people playing out their angst, although there are a couple of people in the PUG that runs MC that I would like to hear. I am sure that while we are trying to take down Ragnaros it might be helpful. But if you can't respond to the CT_RaidAssist notices, you will NEVER respond to the audibles coming out of the headphones.

--
Abalieno:
Maybe it doesn't bug you but I assure you that it's been impossible for me to find a guild to join for about four months.

After being kicked out of the previous one because I couldn't comply with the requirements.

--
Abalieno:

Disagree. Having a preference can and does lead to a guild requirement. Many guilds prefer Vent/TS, they like being able to talk to one and other. That's fine, more power to 'em but it's not necessary to play the game well.

Yes, but that "preference" is becoming a ****ing accessibility barrier for other players that cannot comply.

And if you cannot comply you are out. Goodbye.

No matter of your "choice". I wish I had a damn choice.

--
Hyacinth:
You do. I'm deaf. I can't use it either and I've yet to run into any problems with people trying to insist that I do. Yes, some would like for me to but they don't freak when I tell 'em I can't.

We did raiding and all kinds of things that required teamwork in other games and managed just fine without TS/Vent and we're doing just fine here.

I wouldn't care to be part of a guild that did insist on something like that. Not because I can't hear but because I think it would be *more* distracting to have to keep track of what's on my screen, what's going on in my ears and I know that people can be excitable and go off on a verbal tangent in the middle of a tough fight.

So, I'm sorry that there are guilds that are excluding you but it still is NOT a necessity. They are making it a requirement for their guilds much like many guilds don't want any more or insist upon certain levels or professions.

--
Your grievance is with your guild, not with the larger WoW community or with the game's developers.

It has almost no bearing on voice-comm software either. This is about some guild's rules and your objection or compliance to them. If a guild requires you to commit 4 hours a night at 8PM PST, and you can't comply, it's their obligation to enforce guild rules or they would compromise their ability to organise and lead their raids.

Leading a raiding guild really _is_ work, and when officers take action to control or limit non-compliant members, it isn't always personal or acrimonious---they're just doing their job.

--
Abalieno:

You do. I'm deaf. I can't use it either and I've yet to run into any problems with people trying to insist that I do. Yes, some would like for me to but they don't freak when I tell 'em I can't.

Well, maybe this works for you and the fact that you are deaf triggers a "politically correct" compassion that make them not answer harshly.

But if I ask to join a guild and say I cannot use the voice chat, the answer is one: Goodbye.

Yeah, I know it's not a necessity but as someone else has written:

Whether or not Voicechat is an ease, or it's required, or people could use hierarchical menus to get soundbytes (ala PS) is irrelevant in that its forever arguable.

What actually matters is the rules players set. You can mock and sneer all you want, but if 39 people use Voicechat for Raiding or PvP or just %@$%ing around at the Auction House, the 40th person is going to use Voicechat too.

Players make the rules. Everyone else decides to follow them or gets excluded.

And the players care less than zero if this damages the community or excludes some players.

There's the phat loot and the shortest route to it.

This is what these games are currently "teaching" us.

--
Hyacinth:

But if I ask to join a guild and say I cannot use the voice chat, the answer is one: Goodbye.

Then they're intolerant and I would wonder why you'd want to hang out with them to begin with?

--
Abalieno:
Because, as I said, I wish I had a choice.

I don't know if my server is particularly bad but I don't think so and I suspect that it's exactly the same on every other.

These games are essentially functional and the players themselves set standards that you just ought to respect if you want to be part of the group.

The devs are partly responsible because the higly specialized content brought directly to create highly specialized guilds that completely isolate themselves from the rest of the community. Even if you can use the voice chat you could have an hard time finding a rading guild if you aren't a priest or a druid.

The content is being shaped around 20-40 men instances and the guilds, as a consequence, are being shaped around that content.

Leading a guild is already a onerous task. Dealing with people (exceptions) who cannot comply with the standards is usually an added burden that noone really wants to deal with.

--
WoW is an easy game. In MC, what, you have one, maybe 2 jobs to do? Not hard at all, and definately DOES NOT require 39 others talking amongst themselves to figure it out.

This game has been hijacked by lazy people. I bet the same guild leaders/officers are the ones who have a compass in their car because they don't know how to use directions. Point out this infallacy, and they reply "oh, but why make it hard on yourself?" NOT HAVING TS/VENT IS NOT MAKING IT HARD ON YOURSELF. Pressing this requirement on another guild member means you are insecure, intolerant, untrusting. You don't need it. If you want it so bad, use it just amongst the raid leader and party leaders.

--
Abalieno:

This game has been hijacked by lazy people.

Give a look to this.

"Being lazy" seems the whole point of playing games. Even for the academics.

--
You might be missing a few points.
Q: What is the fastest way for people to communicate ideas quickly to each other?
A: Verbally

You can argue that you can type really fast but you cannot argue that people might not read it. Chat channels can get mobarded with information.

--
Abalieno:
Yes, noone is arguing that voice chat isn't an useful "ease".

The problem is when it becomes mandatory, excluding those who CANNOT use it.

Those who don't have a choice.

WOW Private Server

Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:17:52 -0800

HI all I am new at this and I would like to create a private game server.....would someone be kind enough to tell me how to do it. I just installed the CD now I have version 1.2.3.....whats next? I also downloaded wowemu amd i can't seem to get it to work properly. PLs any helpful hints or suggestions would be gratly appreciated....Thanks to all!

[WoW] About raiding

Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:01:21 -0800

Saving comments from the developers from the official forums in the debate "hardcore Vs casual players" (first, second):

--
Tigole:
I think there are some very valid points in this thread. You're touching on a very difficult issue. Many of the proposed solutions sound easy (and are easy in theory) but are very challenging in either implementation or execution. By implementation I mean, things such as a dungeon that dynamically scales in numbers and difficulty according to the number of people and level of those people (while certainly a very cool idea) is very complicated to do right (right being the key word here). Execution is another thing altogether. Execution refers to how and why we would do such things. Sometimes there are things that we can technically implement but make a concious design decision not to (for example, proxy bidding in the Auction House). So in terms of execution, I'm not confident at this point that some of the proposals are completely sound.

I'm a little disappointed that people criticize us as not doing things for the casual gamer. The whole basis of our design philosophy has been to create a game that appeals to players both casual and hardcore. The very fact that players who vehemently call themselves "casual" reach level 60 in our game (have max tradeskills, have epic mounts) seems like a testament to me that we achieved that goal (at least somewhat).

In fact, we often prioritized things in favor over the hardcore. For those of you who have been playing the game since release, you'll remember that the game shipped with Onyxia and Molten Core as our only raid content. Rather than rushing to get Blackwing Lair, ZG or AQ done, we then focused our attention on Maraudon and Dire Maul. We prioritized those two dungeons OVER raid content even though we were lacking in the latter department, because we wanted to fully flesh out our casual experience first.

We need to strike a very challenging balance here. We want to provide for players who raid, players who solo, players who pvp, players who tradeskill, players who merchant, etc... and the list goes on. When we add content for a group that doesn't include you, it shouldn't be taken as an affront to your playstyle. We have a lot of people we need to keep happy, and we're not going to forget about anyone.

Now the main thing we need to do is get The Burning Crusade out. Players at 60 who do not wish to raid want more of what they had in levels 1-59 which was Questing With a Purpose. When we can add a suite of new content and raise the level cap, we can give players the sense of progression they are looking for. They'll get more of that WoW experience that they came to love. The Burning Crusade has a very balanced combination of solo/group/raid/pvp content. There will be brand new, non-max level dungeons. There will be max level 5 man dungeons. There will be a 10 man raid, something we've never done before (at least endorsed). We're very aware of what people want and we're going to deliver on those needs.

But it would simply be unfair to cut our current raid game short because people think it's somehow hurting their play experience. It's perfectly ok to NOT raid if that's not your thing. But there are lots of WoW fans out there that thrive on getting together in large groups to conquer difficult content. And they want (and should be) to be rewarded for that effort.

When we put in a raid, we're not making a decision to keep content from people. We're trying to provide for an area of our game that we felt was previosly deficient.

We're going to continue to patch this game and we're going to try to make sure there's something for everyone in each patch. Sometimes, however, there might be content that's not your thing -- i.e. solo/raid/group/pvp. But please remember, we haven't forgotten about you. Making someone else's idea of fun gameplay go away isn't going to magically create more content for you. We need to provide for everyone. I can assure you, we're working extremely hard to do that.

Why do you folks have to copy EQ so much? Why can't you develop your own forms of end-game content?

I'd love to see Blackwing Lair and the bosses and things. I think that's want most casuals want over items and things, just to do and see everything. One of my favorite moments in this game was fighting the Baron of Stratholme for the first time. Wow, a Death Knight! Here's the "Warcraft" part of "World of Warcraft"

But you chose to make that extremely difficult to engage in due to an incredibly unimaginative gameplay design

Please stop copying other games, for the sake of innovation and allowing players to experience the world, not just "work" in it

I don't think you're being fair here. You yourself pointed out that we provide "epic" feeling content for non-raiding people in 5 man dungeons, citing Baron Rivendale. I'd go so far as to say the boss encoutners in Gnomeregan and Uldman are more epic than endgame content in other games. We provided an Honor System and Battlegrounds to provide other avenues of advancement for certain players. You can tradeskill Epic items without raiding...

You're more likely to get your voice heard if you keep the posts more productive and less antagonistic. To be frank, part of the allure of Blackwing Lair to people is that it's so difficult to even get to see the content in there. Could we make it a solo dungeon? Yes. It would take less than a day. Would it still have the same allure? The answer is no.

--
Tseric:
There have been a lot of good points and counter-points in this thread. I wanted to chip in my 2cp in terms of design intent and philosophy, so I am going to refrain from comment on the "man-hour/epic#" equation.

What I was going to comment on has been touched on in many respects by Shirokaze, so I shall quote partially (I suggest you read the full post if you haven't) and comment. Much of what I wanted to say and even the approach is contained in his/her response (beat me to it :P)

The number of players in a run sets a bar on how much you have possible before you just run out of potential. For example, in a five man group, you usually have one tank, one healer, at least two DPS (rogue, hunter, mage, warlock, some combination of these) and then a swing character of some sort (additional DPS or off tank or secondary healer). After a certain point, the damage concievably taken by a single tank caps. The amount of healing that a single or even two healers can do caps. The fact that fewer healers are healing what even in 40 man groups can be ONE maintank for some events means aggro is generated faster. Likewise for DPS, the more they dish out the more they risk capping it out.

More importantly, many of the things that are DONE to 40 man groups simply don't scale down to five. If you look at every 5-mannable run in the game as is, even UBRS, none of them employ anything terribly complex in the way of their encounters. There may be a reasonably high damage mob or a damage tick, but nothing like Shazzrah where a mob's teleporting into your casters and AEing them or like Vael where he's randomly popping off people while giving EVERYONE a unique buff that's simulataniously killing them. You can't lose people or afford to lose people in the same way with fewer people.

*snip, edit for length...*

The potential for varied encounters does increase with the number of players you add to the group/raid. This is not to say that you can't have nuanced and exciting challenges to a 5-person dungeon, but they are going to be decidedly different than what can occur in a 40-person dungeon. With 5-person dungeons, there is no opportunity for elements such as healer rotations, tank rotations (to a lesser extent) or even large(r) parties of elite mobs. Certain abilities of raid bosses do not translate to 5-person groups. How does a Major Domo encounter translate into a 5-person group? Is everyone supposed to tank a minion? How do you design such a thing?

What makes a raid boss truly epic? I can tell you it is not simply a matter of HP. If we buffed Darkmaster Gandling's HP to that of Ragnaros, he would simply become unbeatable. You could do that with the simplest trash mob and achieve the same results. A 5-person group would not have the stamina to beat it(npi).

Take Nefarion, for example. An ability that targets a specific class for punishment would wreak havoc on a 5-person group. With effectively no way to counter within a reasonable time, one person removed or killed from the group is a significant shift of power. The same cannot be said for Gandling, where a player’s removal from the fight does not certify a group's doom.

The designers have sought a truly epic feel and play to these 40-person encounters. They continue to elaborate on encounters of this type in a way that is fun for players, but, in all honesty, fun for the devs, too. They are, after all, trying to develop imaginative ways in which to kill you. The nature of some of these raid encounters should convey that clearly.

When it comes down to it, a boss can be considered epic by their ability to crush legions of mortals before them. That is one way of looking at it. These bosses have powers and stature that merit epic rewards, regardless of how players are currently "trivializing" said content. And I use quotes rather facetiously.

As a whole, the designers are currently exploring many facets of what 40 and 20-person raid content can be. They would like to have many dungeons set up for players to select from. However, they would also like to explore the possibilities of content for smaller groups as well. There is definite interest in providing situations in which individual accomplishment stands out that much more. It is simply a matter of what is being explored, designed and implemented now/soon, as opposed to later.

But, I digress...

To answer directly the question posed in the subject line: No, it mustn’t, but it is more available/likely now due to the epic nature of encounters.

P.S.- Sorry for the rambling...

[WoW] Thoughts of a Grand Marshal (Honor System)

Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:05:40 -0800

Saving a post on the official forums.

Author is: Grantham, Paladin on Argent Dawn server, Invictus Decora guild.

--
As of November 15th, 2005, I have successfully attained the rank of Grand Marshal (rank 14) on my Alliance Paladin. I have been PVPing, first part time then full time, since the honor system came out. I ramped up the amount of participation I had in the system as my rank advanced. I did stall at Knight-Captain (rank 8) for about six weeks after the battlegrounds came out as I focused more on Alterac Valley than the more honor rewarding Warsong Gulch.

It took a lot of things to get where I am. It took the cooperation of a good group, the understanding of players who were willing to scale back their earnings to allow me to surpass them, and the understanding / support of my guild. I would be the 'success story' of the PVP / Honor system it seems.

I can unequivocally state that I will never participate in the Honor system ever again. Even if the expansion does not reward former rank 14 players with the level 70 rewards, I will not compete to achieve new versions of the gear I have gained. The system itself is flawed, and in my opinion it is best if people do not get involved in it in. If I had known the real investment needed to advance when I started, I never would have gotten into it.

It is easy to sit back and criticize the choices that GM/HW characters have made when they talk about how much they have had to work to get where they are. The most common statement that the uninformed make is ‘it was your choice, and you should have just stopped,’ or some iteration thereof. I can state that it is not that easy.

There is something called the ‘Dollar Auction’ (sometimes called an ‘American Auction’), commonly used by charities, where when auctioning off an item (or, originally, simply a dollar bill) that the second place bidder must also pay what they bid, but do not receive anything in return. It is extremely common in auctions such as this for bidding to reach a rather silly level (an example is $20 for a standard $1 bill) due to whoever is currently in second place now having invested too much to lose what they are putting down on the table without getting something back. Psychological phenomena prevents the average human being from walking away when there is still a chance of receive some return on investment. Companies around the world continue to pour millions into failing divisions and projects due to the same psychological hurdle.

The honor system plays off this same affect, leaving those who don’t achieve the GM/HW titles with, literally, hundreds of man hours invested with no return. The frustration that this can cause leads to people pushing harder than is healthy to finally get something out of the system. This is where we hear the stories of people sleeping 4-5 hours a day, and then spending all day in the system taking breaks only to eat and use the restroom. Beyond even that, you have people who have their characters played in shifts so that they can have some semblance of a life.

I know people who have spent vacation days from their real life job in an effort to push hard for a next rank or complete the final weeks of the rank 13 to rank 14 transition. I have done it myself, taking four days off of work (November 7 – 10, 2005), so that I could guarantee myself the extra points so that I did not have to continue competing the week of November 15 - 21, 2005.

Even on a ‘soft’ server like Argent Dawn, where the competition is nowhere near as steep as the PVP servers such as Blackrock, Shattered Hand, or Archimonde, those that have achieved rank 14 have at times succumbed to exhaustion, psychological burnout, and general malaise in regards to the game. The system creates a burnout or shell shock affect in the players that participate in it, causing them to cut back on or cease playing the game entirely. In effect, this system can cost Blizzard customers just as constant overtime can cost a company an employee. Anecdotally, many different players on the Blizzard forums report that the rank 14s on their servers all but vanish after achieving their ranks.

There are many achievement oriented people that play MMORPGs, and that is precisely who the Honor system is attempting to hook into participating. Just as the game itself is potentially psychologically addicting (just like a gambler’s addiction, which is very real), the Honor system is even more so. The need to get to that next hurdle or accomplishment to prove to oneself that one is progressing can be extremely strong. This type of compulsion will not show up in everyone, but that is simply due to the fact that every person is different. What affects one person mentally is not guaranteed to work on another. This can lead to decisions that adversely affect the self, just like a gambling addict that sells his car for money to take to a casino.

In summary, I find that the Honor system is not something that is either healthy or constructive. Blizzard has created a system that people can abuse themselves with, and should make changes to it so that the intensive, consecutive time requirements currently in the system are no longer the case. This would be both to show care for their PVP oriented populace, and to retain the customers that often quit after either finishing or no longer wishing to participate in the system. Compete at your own risk.

Hey I remember you!

Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:54:11 -0700

Nicely done website.

[WoW] itemization formulas

Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:04:13 -0700

I’ve been toying with the idea of how WoW items are balanced on creation for the last few weeks. Here is something I’ve come up with that seems to consistently represent things pretty well, and after posting it up for some guildies I decided to put it here as well.

Blizz Reps, please take a look at some sections of this, especially the part about the drape of benediction, so those poor souls can get it fixed or at least see what it really is. Also, if you have access to the actual balance formulae I‘d love to see how close my numbers are to the real thing. There will be some rounding errors due to trying to reverse engineer a system in which I have to take items as they are given. However the errors I point out aren’t off by just a few points, they are off by an entire quality lvl or 10+ ilvls.

---------------------------------------

Some people have been asking me about my work on these and I promised I’d put up something so here it is. So far these calculations only work reliably for armor, trinkets, rings, necks, shields, etc… Weapons are a different beast entirely and they sometimes modify innate dps in ways that defy logic (or at least I don’t have enough samples yet to get a reliable figure for), and scaling seems to be different for them. You can try to apply these scaling routines to weapons, but don’t be upset if they fall short on the high end things (they should work fine for most of the greens and blues below ilvl 65 though).

First, some basic concepts/terms

All numbers in this examination are in arbitrary units, they depend heavily on the values I give to each StatMod, and they aren’t pretty and round because I didn’t use the same absolute StatMods that blizzard does (they should all still be in the same ratios though).
So even though the numbers aren’t pretty, they should still give correct results.

Ilvl - the effective level of an item, this is intimately related to its stats bonuses, armor and dps. The minimum level to use an item is ilvl – 5. If that value is above 60, then the min level is 60.

ItemValue – the total value of stats on a given item, this value scales predictably based on item type, quality and ilvl. It is normalized to be linear with increasing ilvl for a given item type.

StatValue – the amount of a given stat on an item, if a ring has 12 int, then it has an int statvalue of 12.

StatMod – the weighting given to a specific stat, this is how stats are compared in value; in my system everything is compared to the base stat value of +healing, which is assigned a StatMod of 100. Really any value could be used and set to any standard; it is the ratios that are important, so if done properly any standardization should give the same overall results.

SlotMod – Weighting for predicting the value of an item based on equipment slot.

The Stats

Items have stats, sometimes many, sometimes few. Sometimes these stats are well thought out, other times they are absolutely worthless. All items share from the basic pool of stats, these are:

Strength, Agility, Stamina, Intellect, Spirit, DPS, Attack Power, Ranged Attack Power, +%To Hit, +%Crit, Armor, Defense, Damage Shield, +%Dodge, +%Parry, +%Block, +BlockValue, x/5 hp regen, x/5 mana regen, +%SpellCrit, +%SpellHit, +AllSpells, +Healing, +Fire, +Frost, +Shadow, +Arcane, +Nature, +Holy, Fire Resist, Frost Resist, Nature Resist, Arcane Resist and Shadow Resist.

There are other, less common stats that cannot be weighted, such as the chance to put an attacker to sleep, or of using the item to regain mana. While these don’t just out with an immediately obvious value this system can be used to see what the blizzard item designers think they are worth and translate them into a stat-equivalent format.

Armor Scaling

Armor values on item follow a simple linear scaling pattern within specific regimes. For example, mail armor scales linearly between certain ilvls, at which points the sloes of the linear increase change. One of these points is ilvl 45, above this point it scales more rapidly. Remember that an ilvl 45 item can be worn at lvl 40, and shamans and hunters get mail at 40. So they wanted mail to scale up fast for those classes just getting into it without raising the amour values of pre 40 warriors too high (don’t worry warriors, plate armor scales up even faster). An example of armor scaling is shown below.

Plate Chest Armor = (ilvl-44)*8.9+428

The values from this scaling are for green plate chests. The armor value of rare or epic pieces is also very easy to obtain using a simple multiplier. If you really want to go into detail, you will notice that there are plate chests with ilvls below 44. Due to their ilvl they should be equippable below lvl 40 (if any class could) and follow a different scaling equation (which is why jouster plate stuff has such pitiful armor values compared to many other starting plate item, their ilvls are all low).

For Items of the same armor type (cloth, leather, etc…) and the same ilvl

Rare Armor Value = Green Armor Value * 1.1
Epic Armor Value = Green Armor Value * 1.2

The exception to this is shields, which use a slightly different scaling

Rare Shield Armor Value = Green Shield Armor Value * 1.125
Epic Shield Armor Value = Green Shield Armor Value * 1.25

Now you are thinking, “But I’ve seen some items with much higher armor than others around that lvl!” And you are right, some items do have higher armor than these equations would predict. But those items are using that extra armor as an actual ‘stat’. Only this extra armor, above and beyond the predicted armor is considered in item weighting. So while the base armor level of an item is ‘free’, going higher will cost you other stats.

To find an expected armorvalue for a given item you will first need to know the scaling of that item type.

Do a search on thottbot for green items of that type, with lvl ranges of 44-46. Find the base armor they have. Then do the same for items of that slot at ilvl 61-63.

Then use

ArmorScaling = (highilvl - lowilvl)/(higharmor - lowamor)

this is the armor increase per ilvl for a green of that armor type.

Once you have that, do

ArmorValue = (Desiredilvl - highilvl)*ArmorScaling + higharmor

This will give the value of a green at that ilvl.

Then multiply it by 1.1 for a rare, or 1.2 for an epic.

Let's try this on a stormrage helm, 183 armor, ilvl 76.

Green leather helms:
ilvl 45, armor 99
ilvl 64, armor 132

ArmorScaling = (132 - 99)/(64-45) = 1.74 armor/ilvl

(76 - 64) * 1.74 + 132 = 152.8

152.8 * 1.2 = 183.4 -> 183 armor

You can use this to find the ArmorScaling factor and expected armor for any item.

The Equation

Here is the result of testing many forms of equations to see what did the best job of representing the way WoW itemization was handled.

ItemValue = [(StatValueX*StatModX)^1.5+(StatValueY*StatModY)^1.5+ …]^(2/3)/100

There are a few things you should notice about this equation

1) It’s simple (I was dreading something ridiculously complex) but not so simple that it is just all the stats added together. This means that there isn’t some weird voodoo trick to balancing items, but it rather can be represented with a very simple value.

2) Each stat is taken to the 1.5 power. This isn’t too fast of a growth, but it does cause a single high stat to be weighted fairly heavily. For example, an item could have +29 to Str or +18/19 to Str/Stm, the ItemValue would be the roughly the same in either case (close enough to correspond to the same ilvl).

3) After summing the series of stats to the 1.5 power, the total sum it taken to the 2/3 power, this keeps the ItemValue from spiraling up and scaling with a power. After this modification the ItemValue scales linearly with ilvl.

Item Types

You’ve probably noticed that some item slots tend to have better stats than others. That is a helm for example will usually give a better benefit than a bracer. The stat value for each item corresponds not only to its ilvl, but also to the equipment slot in which it belongs. Below are the scaling factors by which the predicted ItemValue for any item of a given ilvl should be modified by to compare it to the actual ItemValue. That is, ItemValue = PredictedItemValue * SlotMod

SlotMod list

Head – 100%
Neck – 54%
Shoulder – 74%
Back – 54%
Chest – 100%
Wrist – 54%
Hands – 74%
Waist – 74%
Legs – 100%
Feet – 74%
Ring – 54%
Trinkets – 68%
Shield – 52%
Off-hand – 52%

These weapons aren’t guaranteed, but they are my preliminary numbers
1h Weapon – 42%
2h Weapon – 100%

The Weightings

After comparing thousands of items, these are some rough weightings I have obtained. Some, such as str, int, resists, +spell damage, etc… are pretty reliable since they occur on many items and in large values. Others, such as %crit, %tohit, %spellcrit and others are much rougher as they don’t appear much and then only in small values (1 or 2%). It is harder to get a solid value for them due to this. Also, items that have nothing else except for 1 or 2 of these less common stats sometimes wont fit in at exactly the ilvl you would expect because getting 1 more of that stat would push it far too high, or it was close and they just rounded when creating the item.

Another thing to consider, a few weightings seem to be different on different item types. This is certainly the case for weapons, but also some stats on rings and necks as well. For example, rings can get higher resist values than their ilvl would imply, so they have a slightly lower StatMod for resists. They have a higher StatMod for x/5 health regen though. There are a few scattered stats that are this way, but overall they make a relatively small impact.

Strength = Agility = Stamina = Intellect = Spirit = 230
Attack Power = 115
Ranged Attack Power = 92
+%To Hit = 2200
+%Crit = 3200
Armor = 22
Defense = 230
Damage Shield = 720
+%Dodge = 2500
+%Parry = 3600
+%Block =1300
+BlockValue = 150
x/5 hp regen = 650
x/5 mana regen = 550
+%SpellCrit = 2600
+%SpellHit = 2500
+AllSpells = 192
+Healing = 100
+Fire = +Frost = +Shadow = +Arcane = +Nature = 159
+Holy = 210
Fire Resist = Frost Resist = Nature Resist = Arcane Resist = Shadow Resist = 230

ItemValue Estimations

Now that we know how item values are figured, and having listed out hundred of items we know that they scale linearly with level, we should be able to predict them based on ilvl, item type and quality.

Green ItemValuePrediction = (ilvl * 1.21 – 9.8 ) * SlotMod
Blue ItemValuePrediction = (ilvl * 1.42 – 4.2) * SlotMod
Purple ItemValuePrediction = (ilvl * 1.64 + 11.2) * SlotMod

What does this tell us?

So now we have all the tools, let’s apply them.

First let’s try to see if we can predict an item’s ItemValue and then check it.

For this example we will use

Circle of Applied Force
Binds when picked up
Unique
Finger Miscellaneous
+12 Strength
+22 Agility
+9 Stamina
Requires Level 60

This item has an ilvl of 75.

If we do the prediction calc above we find that it should have an ItemValue of about 72.1. If we do the calculations with the stat numbers of the item we find that its actual ItemValue is 71.1. Now why is this a whole point below what it should be? That’s because if any of the 3 stats on the ring were increased by just 1 point it would go above 72.1 and wouldn’t be a valid ilvl 75 ring anymore (also I wouldn’t put it past rounding errors).

We can also try this on

Cloak of the Shrouded Mists
Binds when picked up
Back
57 Armor
+22 Agility
+12 Stamina
+6 Fire Resistance
+6 Nature Resistance
Requires Level 60
Item Level 74

This case is a tigher fit, estimated value using this system comes to 71.8, while the actual ItemValue of the cloak is 71.7.

And just so you casters don’t think I’m forgetting you (I’m a healer too after all).

Shroud of Pure Thought
Binds when picked up
Back
57 Armor
+10 Stamina
+11 Intellect
Requires Level 60
Equip: Increases healing done by spells and effects by up to 33.
Equip: Restores 6 mana every 5 sec.
Item Level 75

The estimated ItemValue of this cape is 72.7, while the actual value falls into the window well at 72.5.

You might be wondering why I keep showing capes. It’s because of my next example of mishaps in item creation.

Also, I am showing some high end items to demonstrate that this system works, but many of my values and the scaling groundwork were obtained examining low - med lvl green and blue scaling. So it typically works well across all ilvl ranges.

Item Creation Gone Wrong - Mislabelling

Let’s use this to examine a blizzard blooper.

Everyone probably knows of the Drape of Benediction (ilvl 67)
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35923

It is a cape that seems horribly underpowered for where you get it from, Azuregos. Let’s see how it shapes up using these tools.

When you work out the numbers, the actual ItemValue of the Drape is 48.3, but an ilvl 67 Epic cape should chime in at 65.3 so something seems amiss.

Maybe its ilvl was too high? Lets see at what ilvl an epic cape should have an ItemValue of 48.3. This works out to be ilvl 48, seems a little low and random, maybe we are missing something….

Let’s see what the ItemValue of a rare (blue) ilvl 67 cape would be, maybe that will tell us something. This value is 48.9 (with a lower bound of 48.2). The ItemValue of the drape of benediction falls right into this window.

So now we have the mysterious ilvl 67 rare (not epic) cape, drape of benediction. All of you who said it shouldn’t have been an epic are exactly right. It was designed as a rare and flagged as an epic (a mixup like the snowblind shoes that are epic but originally tagged as a rare, though they fixed those).

Items Valued with unnaturally high ItemValue

There are also items that have been tweaked or changed by blizz that have item values far above what they should (and if you look carefully for discrepancies you will be able to tell which they are). But I’m not going to go into specifics as I was asked by people who use them not to get them nerfed ;)

Tier 2 Sets

Many people have voiced opinions that tier 2 sets are not any better and in some cases worse than tier 1. In some cases of practicality for the needs of the class they are assigned to that may be true, but they were not balanced as worse. People also said that they were intentionally created to be even with tier 1 sets because people already got some in molten core, and that their stats would be raised after bwl comes out.

However, taking a look at item values for items in tier 2, they are exactly where they should be as ilvl 76 items compared to the tier 1 sets sitting at ilvl 66. The item designers just made choices on where to spend those stats that many people don’t agree with.

So don’t expect an across the board boost of tier 2 armor. The most they would do is move some of the allowed stats around, but they will likely stay ilvl 76.

[WoW] Hunter Shot Cooldown Explained!

Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:14:43 -0700

Hi all, this motive, the lead QA tester for WoW. I have some information regarding the Hunter spell cooldown bug that will hopefully set the record straight once and for all. I will basically provide information regarding how the spell worked in 1.4.2 (and previously), how it worked in 0.5.0 (in its broken state) and how it is going to work now.

As you all undoubtedly know, the special Hunter shots all have cooldowns associated with them that are displayed in their tooltips. I will refer to this value as C below.
As you also undoubtedly know, every ranged weapon has a unique weapon speed. I will refer to this value as S below.

How cooldown was calculated and displayed in 1.4.2
In 1.4.2, the client displayed a different cooldown than the server actually enforces. This is a bug, and the calculations were as follows:

The client pulls its displayed cooldown as exactly C, the cooldown of the spell as listed in its tooltip.
The server calculates the actual enforced cooldown with the formula: (C + S) - 500ms. (The extra 500ms is subtracted from C + S to account for latency and is done with all spells, not just Hunter spells)

For Example, Aimed Shot with an advertised cooldown of 6 seconds using a 2.0 attack speed weapon was calculated as follows:

Client Displayed Cooldown = 6.0 seconds
Server Enforced Cooldown = 6.0 + 2.0 - 0.5 = 7.5 seconds

This may explain why a lot of people noticed that hunter shots used to sometimes display a "Spell not ready yet" error if they were attempted to be used again before this "invisible" 1.5 seconds of extra cooldown time had not passed on the server.

How cooldown was calculated and displayed in 0.5.0 (broken)
In 0.5.0, the client was told to match its cooldown display to what the server was actually enforcing:

The client calculates its displayed cooldown with the formula: C + S.
The server still calculates the actual enforced cooldown with the formula: C + S - 500ms.

For Example, Aimed Shot with an advertised cooldown of 6 seconds using a 2.0 attack speed weapon was calculated as follows:

Client Displayed Cooldown = 6.0 + 2.0 = 8.0 seconds
Server Enforced Cooldown = 6.0 + 2.0 - 0.5 = 7.5 seconds

The problem here was that even though the server did not actually enforce any change to the cooldown time, adding the weapon speed to the cooldown time caused the client to not allow the user to cast the spell again, even though, if it had, the server would have let them do so. Not only did this change make the cooldown timers FEEL a lot worse because they were now visible on the client instead of just server-side, on top of this, the lack of the 500ms latency grace period made Hunters actually fire slower than they should, and decreased DPS. This was obviously a bug that will be fixed in the following manner.

How cooldown will be calculated and displayed in 1.5.0 Release
We are fixing both issues described above. In short, we are removing the weapon speed addition to the cooldown on both the server and the client.

The client pulls its displayed cooldown as exactly C, the cooldown of the spell as listed in its tooltip.
The server calculates the actual enforced cooldown with the formula: C - 500ms.

For Example, Aimed Shot with an advertised cooldown of 6 seconds using a 2.0 attack speed weapon will be calculated as follows:

Client Displayed Cooldown = 6.0 seconds
Server Enforced Cooldown = 6.0 = 5.5 seconds

In other words, Hunter DPS will increase slightly as a result of the cooldowns of all of their special shots actually decreasing by their attack speed. The fact that weapon speed was added to these cooldowns was never intended behavior. We designed the abilities around the cooldown being what the tooltips have always claimed. The only spell that will still display the weapon speed in its cooldown is Auto Shot.

The last calculation above looks incorrect, but it is important to note that the fact that the server enforced cooldown is less than the client displayed cooldown is irrelevant. The user is still not able to actually cast the spell until the client-side cooldown has elapsed.

As an additional note, none of the information above takes quiver/ammo pouch weapon speed adjustment into consideration, but for those of you who want to know, that information is subtracted in the following manner (using the same terminology as above and assuming we're still adding S to C in the original bugged system):

(C + S) * (1 - RangedHaste%)

Assuming a 6 second Arcane Shot cooldown, a 3.5 speed weapon and a 15% ranged haste quiver the cooldown would be:

(6.0 + 3.5) * (1.0 - 0.15) = 8.075

I hope this clears up any confusion that the last few days have caused. Feel free to post any questions you might have about anything that I have outlined above.